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#1
08-06-2009, 09:22 PM
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Off the top of my head without thinking too hard, in the past year or so I have paid:
$20 a night to park at a hotel in Niagara Falls, Canada $15 to park at a weeknight Cleveland Indians game $10 to park at an Ohio State football game $10 to park at a Columbus Blue Jackets game $30 a night to park at a hotel in Chicago $12 to park for about 3 hours at a parking garage in downtown Cincinnati Complaining about paying $8 in a private parking lot for an event at which you're going to spend 4-8 hours is comical. If you start saving 4 cents a day, by the time the next National in Cleveland rolls around, you'll have three days of parking covered. 
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#2
08-06-2009, 09:31 PM
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In june I went to see the new Yankee stadium w/ the wife courtesy of Sarno.
We (not Sarno) stayed in a hotel by the Garden and I parked at the Port Authority right past the Lincoln Tunnel. The next day headed for home and we parked at the Port about 26 hours, our fee $53
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#3
08-08-2009, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not...
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#4
08-08-2009, 06:50 AM
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As for parking, spend a day with a car in NYC.....went there with three friends when the National was in Atlantic city. Parked at downtown Athletic club in the am to go to statue of liberty....$30. Parked in Chinatown/Little Italy in a garage for a couple hours......$30. Parked on Hudson around 32nd for rest of day......$10. Probably could have done it a little different and cabbed or subwayed and saved but $70 for the day. $8 is $8. As for the I-X center, it's not THAT bad. They've at least built a huge new bathroom near the front of the center that's nice. Otherwise their bathroom facilities stink. The food stinks at each and every show I've ever been to. People are correct that at Brown convention center in Chicago, you can go out to something close....Giordanos, Gibsons, McDonalds and get back pretty quickly. And the hotel situation is good. In Louisville, Chicago is 4 hours for me, Cleveland 5.5, so I'm cool with any of them. Have been to every national since 1992. Atlanta, St. Louis were also good, close venues to us. Would assume East coast is where the dearth of collectors and dealers are. Ultimately, it'll be where the dealers and promoters decide. Mike Berkus has been great to answer questions and give rationale behind some of the decisions. As some have said, we're addicted and will follow whereever they have it. Vegas would be cool but all the diversions might make it difficult to stay focused!
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#5
08-08-2009, 07:35 AM
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[QUOTE=autograf;740890] Would assume East coast is where the dearth of collectors and dealers are. Ultimately, it'll be where the dealers and promoters decide. Mike Berkus has been great to answer questions and give rationale behind some of the decisions.
T-Bob -- just playing the Barry S role of grammar/vocabulary host here. Dearth means shortage -- don't you mean -- biggest group. Rich
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#6
08-08-2009, 01:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Rich Klein;740896]
Quote:
Tbob P.S. I do know where dearth means BTW 
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#7
08-08-2009, 01:43 PM
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Can't we all just get along?? Really....we all do the same thing, just on diffrent scales as far as spending and does it really matter where we come from? People that don't collect think we are Dorks, Nerds, Losers anyway so lets try to keep it together. Have the National anywhere it needs to be. Everytown will have pluses and minuses. Now I have to finish my 1990 Fleer baseball set. (Joke).
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#8
08-08-2009, 08:01 PM
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Ahhhh
[QUOTE=tbob;740984]
Quote:
 And for Frank A; I do understand and sympathize with your points; when I started this thread -- I understood there are no perfect solutions but with my experience in the hobby I just wanted to make a few points. We've had some twists and turns and kept this mostly positive and recieved some fantastic comments from Mike B about what is needed to run a National (Plus he's offered you a full pass for next year -- as long as you get to Baltimore )OK; let me conclude for now with a few pts 1) My instinct from walking around the area of the Baltimore Convention Center is that this is a very solid location although it will cost the promoters a few more sheckels than some of the other venues. They will do a good job promoting the show locally for the National is both a LOCAL and a NATIONAL show. When I did the Favorite Player Contest for BHN at the 1988 Atlantic City National and talked to Frank Barning later, he told me that the National was a bigger, better and wider local show. The National is still exactly that, with great dealers; a nice flock of collectors and hopefully a good regional crowd to full out the arena. 2) My biggest issues are something the promoters are very aware of; which is the dearth of people who attend and stay on Sunday. That, includes the dealers -- which is why I suggested varied admission pricing based on what day/days you came to the show, how many hours you wanted to be there, etc. They want Sunday to be better; I want Sunday to be better,. etc. 3) I also wanted to focus on what we can change. We can not change the parking fees to attend so guess what; I did not bring that up. I want us to focus on what we can suggest on collectors/dealers; not what we can't suggest. You realize we've drawn over 7K views to this thread -- so as Mike B has said; not only have the posters shown passion but also the lurkers are very interested. 4) Let's keep this courteous. Some of the worst nights of my life have been spent in the pre-1994 National Business Meeting. For those of you who remember those; they had a tendency to end about 2 AM. I really don't want to return to those days folks. Mike deserves respect for making the statements he does on this board. 5) I am very much pro-National and pro shows. There is something special about seeing the cards before you buy/sell them! Anyway -- thanks to everyone who posted/read or learned a lot about our hobby. I learned a lot and I thought I understood about the mechanics of the National -- and there is so much more to learn. Regards Rich Last edited by Rich Klein; 08-10-2009 at 08:55 AM.
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#9
08-08-2009, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#10
08-08-2009, 09:17 AM
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First of all, it is called a National but it has become a regional show. Same locations over and over. Second, the show is to long at 5 days. It's no wonder some dealers pack up early. Move the damn show around the country as it should be and cut it down to 3 or 3 1/2 days.
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#11
08-08-2009, 09:31 AM
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I wonder why a city like Knoxville, Tennessee has never been thought of. Easy access from 8 surounding states. 4 hours from Cinci, 3 frm Charlotte and Atlanta. 2 1/2 fron Nashville. Easy access fro Penn. , St louis, Florida and others. They have a large convention center. A NEW AREA. Why not? At least you'd get some new faces in the crowd. Instead its the same old, same old. Wake the hell up.
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#12
08-08-2009, 09:54 AM
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Just checked. Knoxville convention center has 500,000 sq. ft. of space. I guess that would be big enough!!!!!!!! Also is an excellent location for familys. Pigeon Forge, and Gatlinburg right up the road is an excellent area for vacation with plenty to do and Dollywood an excellent Disney type park. Minor league ball in the area also. Got to be a hell of a lot better for a family than Chicago or Cleveland.
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#13
08-08-2009, 11:15 AM
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More thoughts on Chicago and Cleveland. With all the shows that go on in this area I would think that the dealers would welcome some new areas for the National. New blood is needed in any business and theres none left in that area. The people with resources will travel to wherever the national is. The people in the current area are the same people over and over. I would bet that this years show was not that great and it's not only because of the economy. You need fresh blood.
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#14
08-08-2009, 11:30 AM
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Just a quick note to consider. I hear the same issues that are being bounced around on the thread from our National dealers and our Board of Directors, so the questions and suggestions are not new but still worthy of listening to. It would be impossible to satisfy everyone, just not possible. Families traveling to the National have totally different needs than individual collectors. We tried to work out packages in Anaheim to Disneyland, Knotts, Angel games, etc. but the groups that we did our deals with were totally disappointed with the turnout of response and do not care to work with us anymore. Response was minimal and we were advised to just let those that want to see sights, booked their tickets or times on their own. It became apparent to us that we need to concentrate on our show rather than outside venues. We do try to include all different price hotels in our block of rooms and we usually know the areas well enough to suggest food and entertainment to those that ask but few attendees ask. As for smaller cities, i.e. Knoxville, two problems exist. First, the total amount of exhibit space advertised on their website is 120,000 sq ft. This is on the first floor only, additional floors have a combination of 250,000 sq ft but broken up. We cannot house a National in that small of a facility and certainly not in broken up space and different floors. Second issue is population. We expect at least 50% of our attendance to be of a local nature, within 1 hour drive to the facility. That means that a smaller base population could mean much smaller attendance. My life would be threatened by our dealer base if I made that mistake.
Trust me on a couple of fronts. After 30 years of the National, I am somewhat familiar with the primary issues of hosting a show. The following examples are listed by priority to us, as promoters. 1) facility - must be all on 1 floor with 300,000sq ft min. 2) decorator charge - Cleveland leads in permitting dealer easy set up, that is the absolute primary reason for our repeated visits. We pay the union/decorator $45 per dealer, upfront, to turn their backs on union rules. We do not pass this charge onto the dealer and we pay it for the entire room, every booth, regardless whether the dealer uses the service or not. It is a flat fee to us and run anywhere from $23k to $28K total. Without this, dealers would pay hundreds to wait inline with their inventories and have union workers deliver the stock to each booth. 3) is local population. We would like at least 15,000 local people to join us at the show. We have a local ad and marketing budget of $50,000.00 just to encourage the sports person to either come to buy items or sell what they may have been sitting on for years. 4) local expenses to our out of towners. This includes hotel, food, parking, etc. fees that we try to keep reasonable. 5) hours of the show. We know that 2-3 days is plenty for local attendees but persons who fly in or drive a great distance want as much value for their time as possible. Also dealers need to have a full slate of hours open, to guarantee a strong financial return on their investment. We could hardly expect a VIP attendee to pay $119 for the VIP package and only have 3 days of the show, less autograph tickets, or special product sets. Also, dealers do leave early on Sunday! This is a double edge sword to us. We do not want to impose sanctions on our dealer base. We are not in the police business and the more rules we impose the more problems we all face. Our promoter team has taken it's lumps for allowing dealers to leave early. We have to close our admission booths down at least 3 hours before we are officially closed to not cheat any attendees out of their time on the show and if some booths are empty. This results in a financial loss to us with about an average of 1000 or more attendees come into the show for free. What some dealers don't realize is that many large sales have been recorded by the dealers who stay until the end. But, the bottom line of responsibility, is our job. If we put 10,000 customers on the floor at 4:40pm on Sunday, dealers would stay. We just can't find that formula to gather consumer interest after 2-3pm. We continue to try. Well, there you have it. The instant guide for promoting a National. On one hand, there is a ton of improvement that constantly needs to be reviewed. On the other hand, we must have done one or two things right, next year in Baltimore will be our 31st annual National. We have weathered the downswing in collecting, the negative press articles, bad economies, loss of local shows and collecting base, and even the attitudes of convention centers who do not want our business. As I mentioned before, we are taking serious looks at Las Vegas, Boston, St. Louis, and anywhere on the West Coast that comes close to matching the above priorities. Baltimore is getting a very strong and positive reaction by our hobby and that is a very good sign. Sometimes it's just up to attitude that can make a difference in how succesful our show is. Anyway, keep the passion, without it we have no hobby. Even if it's in the form of a complaint. I have grown a couple layers of thick skin over the last 30 years and can handle a lot, just as long as the National survives. Regards, Mike Berkus
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#15
08-08-2009, 12:04 PM
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Sorry Mike, I don't buy it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dealers on more than one floor. In fact I think the dealers of early stuff would like it better if the new stuff guys were on a different floor. I think the buyers would like it better also. it would make thier search time less. As far as area with easy access Knoxville is as easy or easier than anywhere you have a National. Also the place is large enough for autyograph signings to be away from the dealers floors. Sorry Mike but I don't agree with you at all. Frank
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