Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame

[docpatlv]

Todd,

Are you related to Ray Fosse?

As a somewhat ironic side note, I grew up in the town that Ray Fosse is from (Marion, Il). His mother was a patient of my father and she had Ray sign a bunch of memorabilia to give to me and my brother. Well, you know where Pete served his time...let's just say he wasn't warmly welcomed.

I won't argue that Rose may be conceited and as you put it a "dick", but again, I base my opinion moreso on Pete's accomplishments on the field. I only mentioned the character issue to try to help argue my point (don't think it worked).

Mike

[nolemmings]

Sorry if I came across so heavy handed--can you tell I'm not a fan of Pete?
I understand your position--no question the guy could play. I'm all for second chances too, but not for the Hall. I'm not saying the guy should be denied a job, housing, or medical care, or forced to live in a leper colony. Just cannot honor and exalt him to Cooperstown. I think most already enshrined would agree.

Of course, were you to sell me some of your px7 discs, I could reconsider my position

[docpatlv]

Todd,

I promise I will check to see what PX7 doubles I have. I think I may only have around 5-6 so I will try to send some scans/prices when I get a chance.

I wrote an article for Old Cardboard, but Lyman wanted me to revise and rescan things and it just never came into fruition.

I'll send an e-mail soon

Mike

[william_9]

Actually, I think holding mistakes over someone's head, especially when it involves something that people love, not only makes sense, but is one of the most basic of human reactions. Otherwise, why have courts or jails or even a Hall of Fame? If everything is forgetten once it's over, then why bother to remember?

It's a minor infraction in your's or my everyday life (betting), but in the context of the game it's huge. Having the say over how a team takes the field is something that Pete abused for his own benefit. This is insider trading for the rest of us, and the penalty for being caught is that you are no longer allowed to run anything.

[J.McMurry]

So should we let Bernie Maddoff out of prison in a couple years and give him a job with the Federal Reserve or Department of social security?

[D. Bergin]

Since 1920 betting on baseball has been THE cardinal sin in the sport. It was a mantra that was repeated over and over again in every clubhouse on every team from that point on.

It was made perfectly clear for decades........you get caught betting on baseball, you are out............Period.

Other issues of character are irrelevant. If you are concerned about other character flaws, then make a cut and dry rule and stick to it. This was about as cut and dry as it gets.

I'm not sure why Pete Rose should get exempted from this. Sure, he was a fantastic ballplayer with a 1st ballot, near unanimous resume.

However, I have a feeling if a middle of the road star like Don Baylor or Buddy Bell were in the same predicament, there wouldn't be quite the same uproar to get them reinstated to the game.

And, for clarifications sake........the Hall of Fame and the MLB are intertwined. If you are banned from the game for life, you should also be banned from the Hall. Period.

Joe Jackson was never forgiven, then neither should Rose be.

[drc]

Rose's story that the punishment was supposed to be reduced, despite the agreement he signed, is made up and laughable. Rose had legal representation for the agreement and, if the lawyers thought the punishment was only supposed to be a year or two, there's no way they'd let him sign an agreement banning him for life. They'd go down in history as legal boobs-- "Our client was supposed to pay a $100 fine, but argued it down to 20 years in Sing Sing."

This side "gentleman's agreement" with Giamatti is one of Rose's stories.

[william_9]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

So should we let Bernie Maddoff out of prison in a couple years and give him a job with the Federal Reserve or Department of social security?

Of course not. The point that I was making is that once one is found to be cheating the system, that person is removed from the system permanently. You don't throw Pete Rose in jail for what he did, but, you also don't ever trust him to hold a position in the game ever again either.

Madoff wasn't running an insider trading scheme. His fraud was much more egregious.

[calvindog]

If you let Pete Rose back in then what do you do with McGwire, Bonds, Palmero, etc? He wasn't a player when he did this, he was a manager -- he betrayed the trust given to him in the most offensive manner. And his actions after he bet on baseball, i.e., the twisted PR game he's been playing for years, is actually more sickening. Just cause he's not in the HOF doesn't mean he's not a part of baseball history. His stats are clean and his place is secure -- just not in the HOF. Keep him out, make the penalties for cheaters severe and maybe one day a cheater may think twice before breaking the rules.