Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame

[nolemmings]

never!

[chaddurbin]

pete rose AGREED to the lifetime ban that includes any chance of HOF membership...with the late commish. now he wants to weasel his way back in? i'd let bonds mcgwire et al in before rose.

[william_9]

Pete bet on his own team as a manager. I can't see how that is any different than betting as a player, and actually, it's worse. He had control of the game in ways that no single player had. The fact that he was not taking the field is meaningless. He's like a petulant child these days constantly tugging at the media's pant leg.

I like J. McMurry's idea regarding the lifetime ban. Let him spend his days regretting his decision (it's not as though he can't make ends meet). Somewhere down the line, after Leo Durocher trips him up rounding third, and Ray Fosse can walk over and tag him out in front of the big home plate in the sky, once that happens, he should be placed on the next ballot. If he gets in, he gets in.

Oh, yeah. And Bud Selig will most definitely be immortalized in the plaque gallery.

[docpatlv]

Doing a quick bit of research, I found...

"Current rules ask voters to consider a player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, CHARACTER, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

So William, based on that criteria alone, perhaps Rose should not be allowed in, but then what about the racists (Cobb, Anson), alcoholics (Mantle), adulterers (Ruth), spitballers-vaseliners-emory boarders (Niekro, Perry).

What is your take on the "Character" issue?

Mike

[chaddurbin]

i think you're missing the point...that rose himself agreed and signed a document stating he's barred for life from baseball. his stats is hof-worthy, too bad he took himself out of the running! for him to make a scene now after giamatti has passed away is a disgrace.

[ChiefBenderForever]

I have no problem with Rose not being in the hall as long as they remove Anson, Cobb, Speaker, and a few others who played as hard as Rose and had the stats but had major character flaws which included gambling as well.

[docpatlv]

Quan,

I don't know 100% of what transpired, but I believe Rose signed the document because he painted himself into a corner. Athletes break contracts all the time. I understand that this is a different scenario, but what I'm trying to say is that it's not that cut and dry.

Maybe I am missing the point...My point is, based on his accomplishments as a player, he deserves induction. Noone can argue that. It's not as if he's trying to climb over the pearly gates.

[docpatlv]

William,

Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry also had direct effects on the outcomes of games when they used illegal substances to their advantage. Mantle being hung-over many times over the course of his career probably had some impact on the outcomes of games.

All I'm trying to say is that people make mistakes, and to hold that over their heads until they're dead just doesn't make sense. If you can't agree to that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Mike

[nolemmings]

if memory serves, the a$$hole signed the paper acknowledging that he should be banned, then after Bart passed away, he whined that he had some sort of unwritten, wink and a nod deal with Bart that he would be reinstated after a short time, and that he never bet on baseball but was signing the deal just to give everybody a non-messy out. Lying sack of $hit finally fessed up only recently that he in fact bet on baseball. Even though it would have been ugly, I always wanted a full blown hearing on that wooshbag, with him giving that defiant denial as each and every nail in his coffin was hammered. He should be shown for the selfish, narcissistic and lying dick that he is.

[william_9]

I think ultimately what happens is that the character of the player is judged using the standard of their time. No one would condone the actions of a Cap Anson or Ty Cobb these days, and their careers would probably end as a result. Albert Joey Belle is a pretty good modern day example. If he were a decent human being he'd probably have a lot more opportunities and thus a better shot at the Hall.

The list of questionable off-field, and sometimes on-field, offenses that are represented in Cooperstown are shocking considering the status that these names hold. However, when viewed within the context of their time, a racist in 1910 represents a huge portion of society. It's not right, but it's reality. Even a drunk like Mantle would be run into rehab today. That option didn't really exist in the 60's. The issue was squashed, swept under the rug, and forgotten. Heroes weren't made to look weak back then.

As for modern day voting, it's my belief that the game, and how the player represents it, is what matters. Pete Rose disrespected the game by betting on games that he had direct control of. That's not good for baseball. Neither is having Barry Bonds represent a generation of "me first" players. I think Bonds will pay the same price. Then again, no one likes Bonds as a human being either.

[william_9]

Interestingly, Cum Posey, who was elected in 2006 during the Negro League vote, was known to have ties to gambling, and was a number runner himself. I'm not sure if anyone knows if he was involved in any baseball gambling. I'm sure we could speculate, but there's no telling why that committee voted the way they did. Whether it was purely baseball or if they considered other social and character elements in their vote.

[docpatlv]

My take on the whole HOF issue is this....there is a contingent that sits on their high horses believing that what Pete Rose did is the ultimate sin. I don't condone what Rose did in his post-playing days, but having said that, is it not possible that there are already-enshrined HOF members who have done what most people would consider "worse acts". Are there not HOF'ers who were blatant racists, abusive husbands, alcoholics, drug-abusers, adulterers, etc?

I guess my moral compass is set to different standards, but I would much rather be in the presence of someone with a gambling addiction than someone who hits their wife or embraces the hatred of others based solely on the color of their skin. We are not all angels, surely we have done things in our personal lives or workplace that may not constitute "model" behavior.

America's beloved Michael Jordan has had serious gambling problems, as well as other notable athletes. Oh, I know, Pete bet on baseball...is there such a thing as forgiveness? I can't pretend to know what Rose's thoughts were when his mistakes were brought into the spotlight. Should Pete have confessed immediately, probably, but we have all made mistakes that we did not confess to right away or at all. Has anyone ever made a mistake at their job that they did not admit to for fear of being reprimanded, or worse being fired?

All I know is that Rose squeezed out every bit of talent he possessed every day. When I see modern-day players pussy-foot around and not give it their all, it bothers the sh!t out of me. As a PLAYER, nobody gave more effort than Rose.

I could go on, but I'll leave it at this...I'm not sure what criteria the Hall uses to enshrine players, but if there is anything at all that mentions "moral conduct" or a "moral code", to be fair, we better start digging up dirt on everyone and start pulling some of those players out of there.

And for those who feel that Pete has not paid his debt to baseball, take a good look in the mirror...do you see perfection? Rose belongs in the Hall.

Edited to add: To put things into a bit more perspective, every day murderers and pedophiles are being released back into the real world (you know...the whole debt to society and forgiveness thing).