1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth Discovered

[rhettyeakley]

Al, without getting too far into it, you are basically correct that the W575-1A checklist will look very much like the E121 Series of 80 set.

It is a little more complex than that as in order to understand the checklists of the different sets, you have to know what the timeline of the "E121 like" card. The blank backed (W575-1A set was initially produced even before the E121 Series of 80, so there will be players in the W575-1A set that had been dropped by the time the E121 cards (80) were made (they were being made roughly the same time as the Holsum/Herpolsheimer cards) and the blank backs continued through the beginning of when the E121 Series of 120 were being produced. However, the W575-1B cards were all made at the end of when E121 Series of 120 was being produced.

-Rhett

[2dueces]

Bob, Not to de rail this thread, but on your blog you have a picture of College Football HOFer Albie Booth. It said that he played in the 1932 season. Here is a plate I have dated from 1932. Front row second from the right (first player) sure looks like Booth. Only problem I see is that he is holding a catchers mitt? Same face shape and same uniform. Is it Booth?

[Bob Lemke]

Sorry to report I don't know enough about Booth or Yale baseball to tell one way or another.

I wonder why some of the jerseys have a 1935 date on them? Booth was out of school several years by then.

[Bob Lemke]

Rhett, and all,

I'm sure you're onto something here, but darned if I can foresee ever having the time to straighten that out on my part-time status.

If somebody can make it easy on me by providing suggested checklists and correlations between Series of 80, W575-1, W575-1A, Johnston, Herpolsheimer, etc., we might get something accomplished.

[rhettyeakley]

Bob, I do have a spreadsheet where I keep track of all "E121-like" cards I have visually had evidence of, but it is still very much a work-in-progress. I have only included cards on it that I have 100% knowledge that the front corresponds to the back of the card.

I also have a roughly 10 page article that I have written about the E121-like sets and all the known backs that are included under that umbrella. I had originally planned on having it published in Old Cardboard (Lyman & I spoke about it briefly) but I haven't shown it to Lyman as of yet. I just want it to be as comprehensive as possible before it gets published.

I am constantly adding new info to both of them as more players are found and I'm beginning to see a pattern emerging as to an overall timeline of when each set was produced (at least the sequence when the sets were produced in relation to one another).

-Rhett

[2dueces]

Thanks for the reply Bob, Some of the players would have graduated in 1935. They were probably freshman or sophmores on the team. Our thinking was this plate was made for the Yale team after it played in Japan in 32. I'm still stumped about the name "Punkies" on some of the uniforms. I like mysteries.

[Al C.risafulli]

Bob, the Henry Johnsons are the set that I corresponded with you about over on the SGC board. I've been collecting them for years, and I can say with relative certainty that the checklist does not mirror that of the W575-1s. However, like Rhett, I'm not prepared to make unequivocal statements about the checklist until I have all the cards.

At this stage I have a fairly substantial collection of these by most standards, but I don't have them all. Eventually I'll feel more qualified to make a judgement on the checklist, and not until I discuss it extensively with Rhett, who I consider to be the expert on these.

-Al

[fkw]

Hi Bob, here is another back thats just as rare if not rarer than the E121 style Shotwell.

E135 style (1917) Merchants Bakery

[Bob Lemke]

Since neither Rome nor the Standard Catalog was built in a day, I don't feel any compunction to rush a correction of the W575-1, H.A. Johnson, etc. listings into print.

If Rhett, Al and any others who are compiling data will continue with their work, I'll try to tap that knowledge down the road when time allows.

Is anyone aware of any other E135-type Merchant's Bakery cards other than Frank's Ruth?

[Leon]

I have this one and I think I might have seen 1 more.....but won't promise...

[cfc1909]

Originally Posted by fkw

Hi Bob, here is another back thats just as rare if not rarer than the E121 style Shotwell.

E135 style (1917) Merchants Bakery

FKW

I remember that card-my friend still has it.

[paul]

Rhett,

Do you think the Jesse Burkett card is specific to Koester Bread, or that it should be found in other W575-1A sets?

Paul

[rhettyeakley]

Paul, I don't want to get too into the Koesters thing here but there are only very few cards that are described as "Koesters" that one can feel confident that they actually have a Koesters card. However, among those likely exclusive to the Koesters set is the Burkett.

I have found absolutely no difference between the vast majority of "Koesters" cards and the players corresponding W575-1A, despite what many collectors & dealers have claimed. Thus, unless the player (or pose) is unique to the Koesters set, then the card should be assumed to be simply a W575-1A -- This isn't going to be too popular with those that have paid high amounts for people like George Kelly, Dave Bancroft, Hugh Jennings, etc. thinking that they had a Koesters bread card.

Here are two more cards "exclusive" to the Koesters set...


-Rhett

[paul]

Thanks.

[Exhibitman]

Is there any back identification on them?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Is there any back identification on them?

they are blank backed...