Mastro/Legendary Article in Today's NY Daily News

[jmk59]

Yes Peter, I really think they are. They were the ones that let it affect individual consignors and collectors. The non-payers didn't do that. They may not even have known that a default would do that. The consignors certainly didn't know it. Mastro was the only one that could control that outcome.

Somehow it is different with a consignment. It's not the same as Company X buying raw materials from Company Y with 30-day terms and then not being able to pay Y because the customers of X didn't come through.

With consignments, you are trusting someone with your individual specific property. You aren't selling them inventory on a commercial basis. The process and duty seems different.

This is why I think I may miss something in these kinds of situations. I do look at the consignors that got shafted as the innocent victims - individuals and collectors that trusted Mastro with selling cards for them. Maybe that's where I'm naive. If these consignors are all, themselves, turning these things over as part of an ongoing business, then maybe it is more like the commercial vendor selling inventory as a matter of course.

But it seems to me that just because the back half of the process - the relationship between the auctioneer and dealer/bidders - looks more like a normal commercial environment, the front half where the consignors are still looks sort of like innocent individuals.

J

[Peter_Spaeth]

As Jay and or Corey already pointed out, the willingness to extend credit probably resulted historically in making huge sums FOR consignors, as otherwise numerous bids would not have been placed. In hindsight it is easy to point the finger, but one has to assess the wisdom and propriety of a practice contemporaneously.

Now if as has been alleged there was shill bidding, that is a horse of another color.

[jmk59]

But Peter, I don't think I'm pointing the finger after the fact because it looks clearer that way. I'm more genuinely dumbfounded that someone would do this with someone else's property, especially on such a large scale.

It's not like people gave them money to invest. Or entered the transaction from a commercial standpoint with all of the normal commercial risks. These were individuals that sent specific pieces of property to Mastro simply to sell, keep a cut and pass on the proceeds.

Again, this is where I'm not sure if I am naive or not. I have never consigned to an auction house, but if I did I would not have the foggiest notion that I am undertaking commercial risks normally associated with business. It would be my actual physical and identifiable card that I'm sending. What could go wrong? If anything happens, I just get my card back, right?

That's what I'd think, anyways. Probably the reason that I am sympathetic to the consignors is because it could so so so easily be me, and no doubt I would absolutely NEVER have seen it coming - would never even have considered the possibility of someone selling my cards and keeping the money as I made the decision to consign.

J

[cyseymour]

Joann,

I hear where you are coming from, but remember - if you take something and don't pay for it, that's stealing. It's illegal. Mastro may have enabled it, but the people who did it, still did it. It was Forman who took items without paying, and has caused great grief and stress to the people who need the money the most - the "small time" collectors. It is stealing. You can say what you want about the possibility of shill bidding, but if Forman never paid and took the cards anyway, then it's irrelevant.

Anyone who sides with Forman on this matter, I think, I wouldn't have a lot of interest in buying cards from them on the B/S/T board - cause who really knows if I'd get my side of the deal?

Jamie

[mightyq]

also dont forget that dave formans brother ..steve is a dealer....he is around philly buying all the time. does he submit cards to sgc? does he sell cards for dave? i could go on, way way to many questions here. he may be not guilty, (dave) but way to many questions where there shouldnt be!

[WarHoundR69]

I might be the only one here, but I'm most intrigued by the comic book debacle. How do you "LOSE" a collectible worth a couple hundred grand?

Doesn't pass the smell test.

Plus was it a raw Action Comics No. 1 or a CGC9.6 Marvel Key such as Amazing Fantasy No. 15, FF No. 1 or Spiderman No. 1?

In others words a raw Golden Age Key or a very High Grade (Graded) Silver Age Key?

I would just like to know what the comic book was - not too many are worth several hundred grand.

For that matter it could even be a graded Golden Age Key - a few of those in high enough grade would fetch those bucks.