Ebay - Paypal Seller protection? Really?

danmckee · #1 07-01-2009, 03:13 PM

Dan, I had a detective from the San Fernando police department pay a visit to the buyers confirmed address and found out that address is a UPS store. The owner is a Mario Hernandez and A. Hernandez who signed for the package from the post office is his daughter. However when the owner of this UPS box came in to pick up the package the owner or daughter of the UPS store did not obtain a signature from the person picking up the package. My first question is how can a UPS store be someone's confirmed address by paypal?? Next how can a UPS store owner allow someone to pickup an express mail package insured for $5000. without obtaining a signature??

danmckee · #2 07-01-2009, 03:14 PM

How does paypal consider a UPS store a confirmed address for an individual??????? This is utter theft and fraud by paypal and ebay!

daviddbreadman · #3 07-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Perhaps the UPS store owner has a fake box in his own store and picked up his package from himself and he forgot to have himself sign for the package so that in the event he is caught he will at most be chastised for not having himself sign for his package. And it disappears and is laundered like a dirty $twenty. I'd say look into the financials of the UPS store and see if its losing money and needed a cash injection of $5k or so to pay rent. Also maybe someone should raid the guys house to see if Mr. Hernandez collects baseball cards! haha

Anthony S. · #4 07-01-2009, 03:51 PM

Google search for this Shaunt Azadian reveals....

http://www.armeniansconnect.com/prof...UserSid=211619

p.s. By his own admission, he's "intellegent"

Peter_Spaeth · #5 07-01-2009, 06:49 PM

Paypal is not equipped to referee disputes, so it is just going to rely on default rules (e.g. a buyer claiming an item is not as described is always right). The only recourse may be to go after the buyer, either civilly or through the authorities.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 07-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddbreadman

Perhaps the UPS store owner has a fake box in his own store and picked up his package from himself and he forgot to have himself sign for the package so that in the event he is caught he will at most be chastised for not having himself sign for his package. And it disappears and is laundered like a dirty $twenty. I'd say look into the financials of the UPS store and see if its losing money and needed a cash injection of $5k or so to pay rent. Also maybe someone should raid the guys house to see if Mr. Hernandez collects baseball cards! haha

Very likely scenario. Almost as likely as what happened -- a fraud was committed by Mr. Azadian, who has a box at the UPS store.

Rob D. · #7 07-01-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmckee

My first question is how can a UPS store be someone's confirmed address by paypal?? Next how can a UPS store owner allow someone to pickup an express mail package insured for $5000. without obtaining a signature??

Dan,

Regarding your first question: My PayPal address is the address I use at my UPS store to receive packages. My guess is that it's not that unusual. I think by "confirmed address" PayPal wants an address at which items can be delivered (and not necessarily the account owner's residential address). I did not always have my UPS store address as my PayPal address, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't tough to switch. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, just that it's not an indication that someone's trying to pull a fast one.

Regarding your second question, I've never had to sign for a package that I've picked up at my UPS store address. The UPS store signs for it on delivery, and all of the employees there know me, and they give me my packages. I've asked other people who have UPS mailboxes, and this seems to be standard operating procedure. I don't agree that it's a good policy, because the store has no protection if a week after I pick up a package I go back to them and say I didn't get it. There are some weeks where I might pick up 7-10 packages, and they're not keeping track of any of them. I would much rather they keep a log to protect both them and me. What happens if they sign for a package, and it gets misplaced? I have no proof that I didn't pick it up.

So though I don't think it's a good system, I also don't think it's automatically a red flag that some kind of fraud has taken place.

danmckee · #8 07-02-2009, 07:03 AM

Makes sense Rob, based on this, the UPS store may be liable then. That is a pathetic practice they have.

The red flag in this case is that the seller does not have the card or the money back, that is theft/fraud no matter how you slice it.

It sounds like that this is a very easy way to steal through a UPS store, my friend may be able to sue the store owner.

thanks for the info
Dan

Peter_Spaeth · #9 07-02-2009, 07:14 AM

How is it the store owner's fault if the buyer defrauded your friend?

danmckee · #10 07-02-2009, 07:18 AM

For having a service similar to a PO Box (unless I am misunderstanding something) and handing out expensive tracked packages with no signatures or ID?

I don't know, seems like a ridiculous practice to me if you are going to handle shipments of thousands of dollars no?

Peter_Spaeth · #11 07-02-2009, 08:18 AM

The store owner is probably by contract authorized to sign for and accept packages by the box owner, which satisfies the signature requirement for the postal service and other delivery companies. I think it will be very uphill to claim the store owner's negligence in not obtaining an internal signature is somehow the proximate cause of the fact that a fraudster was able to take advantage of some loophole in ebay/paypal practices and procedures. Perhaps a more plaintiff-oriented lawyer would have a different view.

danmckee · #12 07-02-2009, 08:35 AM

Well Peter, unfortunately I am not a lawyer and am probably the most clueless person on this board about law so you have me at a disadvantage here.

It just seems to me that the package should be signed for all the way to the final destination. If USPS and UPS are going to work together than I think both should have similar rules in place. If you have a PO Box, you are not going to get this insured package without signing for it.

To have UPS sign for it and then just hand it out to whoever wonders in the store claiming to have a box there, or actually having a box there, just seems a little lax to me at that point.

I do however agree that USPS was satisfied once the UPS store signed for the package.