Identify age and type of this photo - 1860s-1880s?

[19cbb]

Paul, do you know if the original photograph is in fact part of the HOF archive?

Identity debate aside, I'm really intrigued on how the same CDV ended up for public auction.

Was the CDV deaccessioned prior to 1996?
Was it acquired by the HOF or was it received as a donation after the auction?

[bmarlowe1]

orator1 says: "The reason I ask is that the HOF's identification of this photo doesn't look like that person to me."

You are right - that guy is not Jim O'Rourke - for sure.

Nor is he Tom O'Rourke:

[orator1]

Below is the email I received recently from the HOF.
Even though the HOF described this as a cdv I wanted confirmation of this from net54 experts, to help pin down the date.

"I came across this small carte-de-visite portrait of James O'Rourke photographed by Wood, 354 Grand Street, cor. Essex St. N.Y. Do you already have a copy of this?"

That's the only info I currently have on this cdv.

I will forward your questions to the HOF researcher and hopefully get some answers. I too was surprised to see the same cdv in the 1996 auction you posted.

[orator1]

John O'Rourke in 1879:

[bmarlowe1]

The HoF cdv is not John ORourke.

[orator1]

Comparison of unknown "1870s" player identified as James O'Rourke by HOF and REA (top left), and actual photos of John (1879 - top right) and James (1877 - bottom left, and 1878 bottom right)

Any chance James or John is the unidentified player?
Can both be ruled out by this comparison?
Maybe it's just a younger looking Jim from 1874-1875 when he also played on Boston? There do appear to be similarities.

The only other O'Rourke who played for Boston during that time period that I know of was Tom (1887-1888), but I don't have a good resolution image of him for comparison. Would 1887-1888 be too late for the cdv in question?

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by orator1

Would 1887-1888 be too late for the cdv in question?

Yes, the CDV is likely 15 years earlier.

Most cameo portrait style CDVs I have are dated 72-75.

[orator1]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Yes, the CDV is likely 15 years earlier.

Most cameo portrait style CDVs I have are dated 72-75.

If that's the case it would fit with being James O'Rourke who played in Boston from 1873-1875, and could not be John or Tom. There are no other O'Rourkes listed in baseball-almanac.com who played in the 1870s.

One last comparison with two earlier James O'Rourke photos - top left is 1873 and top right is 1874. Any opinions of this new comparison with these younger James H. O'Rourke photos? Are they the same person? All opinions welcome.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by orator1

I will forward your questions to the HOF researcher and hopefully get some answers. I too was surprised to see the same cdv in the 1996 auction you posted.

Paul, did you get a response from the HOF researcher?

[orator1]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Paul, did you get a response from the HOF researcher?

I did not get a response yet. I made a research request as well so that might be what's holding up their response. If I don't hear anything by Friday I'm sending a follow-up email.

[drc]

One thing I notice about Jim is he had curly hair. Even when he greased and combed it, it couldn't be tamed. The guy in question, who I think does have a strong resemblance to Jim, has easy straight hair.

[orator1]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Paul, did you get a response from the HOF researcher?

I just heard back from the HOF researcher.
This CDV was donated to the Hall in the year 2000 by a private individual. They don't know if the 1998 auction winner was the donor or if it exchanged hands again before the HOF received it.

[19cbb]

This CDV was donated to the Hall in the year 2000 by a private individual. They don't know if the 1998 auction winner was the donor or if it exchanged hands again before the HOF received it.

O'Rourke or not, this is good to know.
Thanks for the update Paul.