Did Chief Bender Scout?

[FrankWakefield]

Norbert Dundon was a catcher for the 1927 Johnstown Johnnies of the Middle Atlantic League... the Pennsylvania team had 2 managers that year, Babe Adams and Chief Bender. Bender hit .227 in 20 games, pitched in 18 games, won 7 lost 3, had a 1.33 ERA.

If it were me, I'd try to contact a librarian in Johnstown, PA. See if you could send them some money for looking at some 1927 newspapers for that first week of August. See if the weather matches, and the box scores. Maybe you can find a link to August 1927 Sporting News, and see if they have the delayed box scores.

1927 seems to be the last year Dundon was in organized ball. I think what you have there are notes that Bender made to himself as he managed the team. So those aren't scouting reports, those are manager's notes.

[bace]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Norbert Dundon was a catcher for the 1927 Johnstown Johnnies of the Middle Atlantic League... the Pennsylvania team had 2 managers that year, Babe Adams and Chief Bender. Bender hit .227 in 20 games, pitched in 18 games, won 7 lost 3, had a 1.33 ERA.

If it were me, I'd try to contact a librarian in Johnstown, PA. See if you could send them some money for looking at some 1927 newspapers for that first week of August. See if the weather matches, and the box scores. Maybe you can find a link to August 1927 Sporting News, and see if they have the delayed box scores.

1927 seems to be the last year Dundon was in organized ball. I think what you have there are notes that Bender made to himself as he managed the team. So those aren't scouting reports, those are manager's notes.

i think you are right.. i just found the 1927 roster, and the pitcher-catcher combinations match up.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...m.cgi?id=21430

because these are not signed by bender, would they still hold any value?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

One is signed (hand printed surname). A veritable ton of Bender's personal ephemera has made it to the market over the years. Unless the notes were of pointed historical significance, their value is minimal; perhaps $40-60 for the pages scanned.

[FrankWakefield]

The Scottsdale Scotties were from Scottdale, PA. Charlie Jeffcoat pitched for them in 1927, Clarence Marshall was the manager and he caught a bit. That fits with the Sunday game that Bender pitched.

The Charleroi Babes had a pitcher by the last name of Davis, and Harold Herman was a catcher there, in 1927. The 'Thomas' pitcher is William Thomas. He never made it to the majors. He was in the minors for 24 seasons, with a 383-347 record, that is some pitching... Dixie Walker played for the Babes that year.

Neat stuff, thanks for posting the scans. Have you more?? You might send scans of what you have to someone at the Johnstown library, and that would get them fired up about digging in the paper stacks.

[bace]

these are the only ones that i have... i got the 3 for $10 total.. i wish i had more.. these may not be worth a whole lot, but thanks to all the research that was just done.. these mean more to me now than they did this morning.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Although your items are interesting from an historical perspective, I still think that the estimate I gave above is fairly accurate. Unfortunately, these do not command the attention of most collectors as either of us would hope. Somebody bought several such notebooks intact a number of years ago and proceeded to break them up into groups pf 3-5 pages. These groupings appeared on eBay from various sources for some time and never drew much collector interest. They can really be equated to the trove of Ty Cobb check stubs that made the rounds about the same time. Those generated more interest due to fans' continued fascination with Cobb. Also, some of those check stubs were either signed "Ty" or "Cobb", thereby creating holographic examples that any collector could afford. One enterprising young college student even went so far as to purchase as many of the aforementioned stub varieties as he could. He then paired a "Ty" stub with a surname counterpart, thereby creating a "full name" "signature". He told me that he made quite a killing off of his idea. Here's to you, Chad. Getting a little off track here...

Bender has been left by the wayside in terms of sheer popularity/collectibility. Despite being fairly rare in single-signed ball form, such items bring much less than one would expect for a HOFer who has been dead more than half a century. These sort of statistics always serve to trouble me, as I've always been much more fascinated by rarity than popularity.

[Rob D.]

I got a chance to meet the Chief Bender who was a scout for the Reds at a pre-draft workout at Riverfront Stadium in 1984. As the Reds staff members who were running the workout were being introduced, the name "Chief Bender" caught my attention.

I got a chance to ask him later if his name prompted many questions when he was introduced to people, and he looked surprised.

"Not as many as you might think," he said. "How the heck do you know who Chief Bender was? A little before your time, don't you think?"

I told him I read a lot of baseball books growing up, and he laughed. He impressed me as a very nice guy who realized how nervous most of us were and almost empathized with us. He definitely didn't have the "big-league" attitude that a lot of scouts carry around. At least that day he didn't.

[bace]

the 3 pages i have all have Bender's name hand written as the pitcher in one of the box scores. .. the backs of 2 of them are addresses.

so would it be fair to say a value would be $75 - $100?