T210 Red Borders

[Bill Stone]

I should also add that the transfer of Shelbyville to Maysville in 1910 is not conclusive since there were 3 Shelbyville players ( Kircher, Van Landingham and Womble)depicted in the Shelbyville uniform for the T210 Series 6 issue.

[skybar]

The time line of manufacture and distribution is something that may never be figured out.

Another example: Keifel is pictured with Richmond on Series 2 from his time with the team in 1909 and also for Lexington in Series 6 from 1910. This has always struck me as curious.

Shawn

[DixieBaseball]

Is this in fact the same Keifel in series 2 or a brother ?

[FrankWakefield]

SABR's ml database shows George Keifel playing for Dayton of the Central League in 1908, both Richmond and Portsmouth of the Virginia League in 1909, and then the Lexington Colts of the Bluegrass League in 1910. He was a weakhitting, part time catcher, hitting .159, .207, and .192.

The database also shows a Keifel of unknown first name playing in 1912 for St. Thomas in the Canadian League.... but that can't be George. The guy in the CL hit .273 at an unknown position, if that was George he'd have played another year somewhere.

I think the two Keifel cards in T210 are for George Keifel. In the fall of 1909 Old Mill starts out with their red border cards, the first 2 or 3 series go well enough, so they expand. Son of a gun, Keifel isn't with Richmond anymore, so Old Mill gets the card updated to depict Keifel with his new Lexington, Ky team. That's what I think at the present...

FW

[oaks1912]

I'm in the same boat as Tom's suggestion above. Several groups of 'outside the hobby' T-210's that I've discovered in the past were all the same series. Old Mill backed T-206's have turned up in original collections from my area, but never T-210 (unless the family had relocated from another part of the country)

[John V]

From my microfilm research of "The State" newspaper in the Columbia library, (my head is continues to spin), I found an article regarding the signing and arrival of Rudy Schwietzka to spring practice in Columbia on or about 3/25/1910. Schwietzka came highly recommended by Columbia player Ray Marshall (T210).
This points to Series 1 being issued after the start of the season, in order to have a photo of Schwietzka in uniform.

[FrankWakefield]

John, I am glad you're digging through those papers!! Stay at it, and post what you find, please sir.

As for Schwietzka, if the image on T210 of him shows him in Columbia uniform, then I agree. T210 could show him in a 1909 uniform... T210 series 1 might not have been issued all at once, some initially, then some others added or as replacements. My point is that the 3-25-10 date doesn't prove as much as it might initially seem.

It certainly seems to me that T210s were issued regionally. A cigarette smoker in Kentucky would have been more likely to buy manufactured cigarettes if the cards included were of Bluegrass League players instead of all of those various players many of whom were unknown in Kentucky. Definitely a regional issue. It would take some incentive to get a Kentucky fellow to pay that money out when he could have saved money and roll his own.

And, it seems to me that Series 1 would have rolled out before Series 6, Series 7, or Series 8.

Finally, I don't think that all of the cards are out there in equal numbers. Either many were double printed while some weren't, or there was a change in which cards were being printed and distributed. The latter seems more likely to me.