Collect.Com Auction Catalog on-line

[Bob Lemke]

This (circa 10:45 a.m. CDT, Wed., 5/27) is the first time I've been on the forum since mid-afternoon Friday, so the authenticity question raised by Jerry is new to me. I've had a chance to read the thread (including its tangents) and take note of John's analysis of the Halper piece versus the two that have since come to auction.

I have conferred with Collect.com's auction director Steve Bloedow and he has agreed that we should pull this item from the auction. We will undetake a more in-depth look at the S&D stand-up and seek outside assistance in determining or disproving its authenticity.

Let me be totally up front in stating that I am the one who passed judgment on the originality of this item. When I heard it had been consigned I was immediately concerned because I was aware that this particular ad piece had been counterfeited in recent years. My cursory poking around on the internet, however, indicated that the fakes seen in quantity on eBay, etc., were of a smaller size. I visited the Heritage auction site and studied the example sold there compared it with the consigned item. It was my considered opinion that the piece sold by Heritage was not the progenitor of the piece consigned to Collect.com; that is, nobody stole the image from Heritage and made a counterfeit from that source. I had never heard any indication that the Heritage piece was questioned.

If you look at the Halper piece as the possible "source" for both the Heritage and Collect.com examples, the concerns expressed here become understandable. As I said, further study will be undertaken and the consigned S&D standup is now off the market.

That being said, I have to concur with those who expressed the idea that I, or Steve, should have been contacted directly on this subject. To this moment, I have not received a single e-mail or PM from anybody referencing this matter. As you can see, I am not an everday visitor to this forum, and Steve is even less so. The professional courtesy of a heads-up from the original questioner or anybody else with a concern would seem to have been the way to go.

I also note the appearance of some new "faces" on this thread, hiding behind anonymity to pursue their tilt at the Coaches Corner windmill. They should properly take up their cause in a new thread that would likely rival the 400+ post-count of the last one and have the same impact on the way business is conducted in this hobby/industry.

We appreciate the vigilence of many of the experts who frequent this forum and you have my thanks for raising this concern; just know that in future any issues would be more timely addressed by a direct contact.

[Rich Klein]

1) Bob and Steve did the right thing to do when they realized what was happenning. I agree with Bob's version of the time line. See pt 2 for what I mean

2) Having worked for a similar type company to F&W; let me assure the posters that there is no way that every department is aware of what is going on in all the other departments. Krause (F&W) is just too large for that to occur.

3) Jeff and Todd; please take your ribbing, serious or not, to emails.

4) Bob; I do disagree with you slightly in that I believe the public comment helped you all do the right thing. Just like when you wrote about the fake grading companies all those years ago. You could have contacted them privately but instead wrote a very nice article about the Fake 1963 Bazookas IIRC.

5) The Coach's Corner issue is a tricky one. Even assuming as I do based on pt #2 that Collect.Com auctions and SCD are two different operations -- unfortunately Collect.Com will be branded by the Coach's Corner relation although it is obvous that Collect.Com auction is going to be properly vetted whenever possible. Now; my buddy T.S. O'Connell wrote a blog recently in which he vented AND with very good reason about some Coach's Corners comments

Those comments appeared in his blog entry about Max Silberman (also a good friend of mine and trading partner since the 1970's) and his battle with his many ailments. That was not an appopriate place for the Coach's Corners comments and ANYONE who posted in that blog piece should be ashamed of themselves.

However; the general issue is acceptable to discuss Coach's Corner and a public airing is fine. Hey; I worked at Beckett when we were all the major pricing game in town and you should have seen some of the lies said on the old Sports Net boards in those days. Give someone an computer and not face to face talk and see what negative things get posted.

6) Good luck to Bob; Steve; etc in your auction. I hope that every lot *except for any I may bid on* reached more than your maximum goal

[Leon]

Thanks for the feedback and follow up. The only thing I will add is that there is absolutely no one on this forum, that is a participant, who is completely anonymous. They can usually remain anonymous in threads but if push comes to shove I do have their contact info, meaning first and last name and a phone number. As a matter of fact I too saw some new faces and double checked to make sure their info is on file...and it is. Good luck in the auction. If you have enough of them there will no doubt be other issues in the future. It's all about how they are handled. I knew this would be handled professionally. regards

[Mr. Mitt]

Thank you, Bob. Pulling it for further evaluation is the prudent thing to do. I applaud the decision. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is authentic, utilizing multiple and trusted sources, this thread will be a blessing in disguise for your next auction as the piece will garner more bidders than it would have otherwise gotten given the skepticism. I, for one, however, believe that the authentication results won't be pleasant.

As for contacting you directly, in retrospect, perhaps I should have. I understand your point of view, but hope that you understand mine too. You came on a public forum to advertise your offerings. My intent was to have a potential forgery pulled from the marketplace and not have a buyer endure the cost and hassle of later realizing he was taken. John's visual, side-by-side comparisons were invaluable. This forum is to help educate and advance the hobby. That's what was done and private emails would not have accomplished this.

Lastly, your initial concern about its authenticity given your knowledge of prior reproductions casts a darker shadow. Comparing your example to Heritage's is commendable, though why not delve a bit deeper, especially on a $20k+ lot that is the star of your inaugural auction? If you can reference Sotheby's hammer price, perhaps comparing your piece to theirs would have been appropriate.

This is not a pissing match and I don't want to diverge too far from my initial intent of thanking you for pulling the lot. A mistake was made. I make them, you make them, we all make them. They will continue to be made by all of us to varying degrees. I'm content that the proper action was taken and useful knowledge has been disseminated to the broader hobby.

Jerry

[Aric]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

That being said, I have to concur with those who expressed the idea that I, or Steve, should have been contacted directly on this subject.

Why do you think that? Who would that benefit? You. That would only benefit you. Instead, now we know that your auction house did not do it's homework on its most publicized piece in its first auction. Who's to say you have not done your homework on the remaining items? If this had not been taken public then no one else would have known. Do you expect Wonkaticket to do the research on all of your other items and notify you privately if he finds a problem.

[Jim VB]

Geeesh, Aric. I hope someday if you make a mistake or error in judgement at work, that none of us are looking. If that day ever comes, I'm sure you'd appreciate a private "Pssst..." rather than a public airing out.

I don't know of any individual or any auction house that is flawless. What sets them apart is how often (or how seldom) they have problems, and how they deal with those problems.

Bob has been around this industry a long time. I strongly suspect that he has added more to it than you ever will. (I can only "suspect" because you've made 2 posts on this board... ever. And in the second you go into attack mode on a guy who already has admitted that he may have made a mistake, and is rectifying the problem.)

Glass houses buddy.

[drc]

As Bob noted, no one contacted him and if someone had he would have have known about the issue that much sooner. This is an instance where contacting the auctioneer is the most effective and efficient way to get practical result.

[jmk59]

I'm with JimVB - every word and even every syllable of his last post.

Shut up Aric.

Joann Kline

[Rob D.]

I have no problem with the public post that was made regarding the authenticity of the item, but I'm surprised that Bob (or someone else at the auction house) wasn't sent an e-mail at the time the post was made.

Quite honestly, it's not like you can expect an auction house to make public why an item is pulled, so the post on the board helps educate and inform collectors in the event the item shows up in a different auction or on eBay at a later date. But not sending an e-mail to the auction house expressing your concerns is a questionable decision at best.

[Aric]

Okay, I may have overreacted and been a bit harsh and for that I apologize. My problem does not lie in that a bogus item made its way into the auction's catalog. I realize that happens in even the best and most prestigious auction houses. And I am sure Bob would have removed the item once it's authenticity was brought into question.

My problem lies in the calls for this to be kept private. There is too much fraud and deceit in our hobby for these things to be hidden away anymore. The good guys are sitting right next to the bad guys and who knows which is which any more. The only way we, the collector and hobbyists, can arm ourselves is with information.

[danc]

First of all, I had to give Leon a blood test in order for the registration.

Second, noted errors made public on Boards are fair game especially if you bring this to our attention for free advertising.

Third, Rich was correct above. Sometimes people get out of line and mask themselves to protect their identity. I read most of the stuff on T.S's blog. Is it fair to him that an outraged public spews hatrid in his direction? Probably not, but is it fair that the "voice of the hobby" misleads people? All SCD does is ignore the general public and all we can do is say "no" and apparently the general public has created what we have now, thirty-five pages and I don't know one single person with a subscription.

Fourth point, your auction would be praised if you did not have an association with the periodical. SCD touts these "authenticators", stuff sells LOW and can we then consign these items to the Sportscollectorsdigest.com auction? Why not! I don't understand?

Fifth point, the famous thread was over 700, not 400.

Lastly, you have to understand, we are all frustrated and nobody gives anyone answers. It's not your fault, nor was it T.S's fault, but we are all tired of being ignored and you guys wear the work clothes of the big cog. Who is the top man in control and makes the decisions? When someone brings up this concern to someone at SCD, they handle it in one of two ways. Ignore the person or get defensive. You wonder why so many people are angry? Check out the blog at www.sports-rings.com. That dude is angry.

In saying the above, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER bid on an SCD auction, no matter how badly I need something, I would rather not fill that hole at any cost then support "that" brand name.

This is my opinion.

DanC

[PhilNap]

The whole SCD/Coach's Corner relationship is a total mess. I would think that by now, with all the abuse it apparently subjects TS to, he would certainly like to distance himself from his controversial advertiser. Unfortunately, higher ups and business survival probably dictate otherwise.

I guess dealing with the abuse is part of the job description for him, Lemke and any other SCD employee who puts himself out there.

It seems to me that this new auction venture is just an attempt to generate some positive cash flow in an effort to stay afloat. As far as supporting the auction goes . . . I have to agree with DanC here.