T206 Backs set

[tedzan]

Great collection of T-backs in your gallery and thanks for including the 1910 Coupon and Red Cross backs.

Regarding the "apple green" Sovereign backs....I looked over my all-Sovereign complete set of 407 cards,
and this color variation appears to exist only on cards with Sovereign 350 backs. None of the 151 cards in
the 150 Series in my set are "apple green". Furthermore, none of the 52 cards in the 460 Series are "apple
green".

Of the 204 cards in the 350 Series in my set, only 8 are "apple green". The duplicates I have of these part-
icular 8 cards have the normal color green. This leads me to conclude that the "apple green" phenomena is
random within the 350 Series cards and it most likely can be explained that a lighter color of Green ink was
applied on certain press runs of the Sovereign 350 backs. In my opinion, these are not a legitimate variation,
but just a printing anomaly.

I'm not at home, therefore, I can't post any pictures. When we return, I'll scan some of the cards in my set.


TED Z

[caramelcard]

Guys,

Still can't figure out how to post the actual card on this board, but here's the link.

Check out this apple green combination I've had for a while:

http://photos.imageevent.com/caramel...bsize/cobb.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/caramel...e/cobbsovb.jpg

By the way, call me a pessimist, but I've seen a couple different shades of sovereign. There's some really bold, dark shades as well.

Rob

[tedzan]

You noted...."I have noticed that the ones I have are cards that appear in the 350/460 series"

I am sure you know that there is no "350/460 Series" in the Sovereign issue (except for the 6 super-print cards).
The Sovereign cards were simply printed in three series....150....350....460.

Having said that, I do recollect that many of my "apple green" cards are Subjects normally found in the Piedmont
or Sweet Caporal 350/460 series.

Therefore, you may be on to some thing in your observation. However, I will reiterate that I have also seen these
cards with normal Green backs. I will get back to you on this when I'm home and have a chance to closely look at
my set.


TED Z

[cfc1909]

Ted
I realize there is no 350/460 in Sovereign and that is why I mentioned the AB no frame cards. It appears this color Sovereign may appear on certain cards. If the same front is found with both color Sovereign 350, it may just be an ink problem. If not we may need to research what fronts are on these and see if there is a patern

[tedzan]

As I said in my last post, I think you are on to some thing in your "apple green" observation....regarding the 55 Subjects
found in the 350/460 series of the other T-brands.

For now, I am going by memory; however, I may have a lot more than 8 apple green cards in my Sovereign set. When I
am home later today, I will check-out my set and provide you with a more definitive accounting of my apple green cards.


TED Z

[Doug]

That's a great group of cards!

[tedzan]

"By golly Jim you've got it"....a very astute observation by you....congratulations.

I just looked over my all-Sovereign set; and, the 61 Subjects (including the 6 super-prints)
normally found in the 350/460 series have "apple green" backs. In addition, Nichols (batting)
also has an "apple green" back.....this card is thought to have been in this series,
Furthermore, this lighter green colored back is not found on other Sovereign cards in the 150,
350, or 460 series.

I will provide comparison scans of the 6 super-prints in my next post here.



Other series......[...........................sample of 350/460 Series cards.........................]


darker green.......[........................................apple green.....................................]




TED Z

[tedzan]

The SOVEREIGN issue was first to introduce an intermediate series between the 350 Series and the 460 Series.
This series is classified as the 350/460 Series. However, in the SOVEREIGN issue, only the 6 super-prints were
printed with 350 and the 460 series backs.
Shown here are 3 of the 6 super-prints. Observe the difference in the shade of green between their 350 backs
and the 460 backs.











The next post will cover the other 3 super-prints.



TED Z

[sreader3]

Not sure what this adds to the present discussion, but there is a similar phenomenon with the Piedmont 460 Factory 42 back. In the Piedmont 42 case, there is a darker blue variant and a lighter blue variant.

Edited to Add: Most interesting to me is that the "apple green" Nichols provides further support (i.e. beyond his existence with American Beauty 350 No Frame) for the view that he was intended to be a 350/460 RP subject, but never made it to print with 460 backs.

[sreader3]

Ted,

I will take a not-so-wild guess that your Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) and F. Smith (Chicago White Cap) Sovereign 350s also exhibit the "apple green" hue.

Scot

[mrvster]

Scot

your right about the 42 pieds....the "darker" blue are tuff!!!!= )

johnny

[tedzan]

The other 3 super-prints are shown here (Cobb and both Chase's).

The super-prints are both 350 series Subjects and 460 series Subjects. There is an observable difference
in the green ink used to print these super-print's 350 vs their 460 backs. However, it is not as significant
as the difference that are seen in the 150 Series backs and the first 140 Subjects in the 350-only series
versus the 62 cards in the 350 series with the "apple green" backs.

Apparently, American Lithographic started printing the SOVEREIGN advertising backs with darker green ink
in the 150 and early 350 series cards. Then used lighter shades of green ink for their latter 350 series and
the 460 series.












TED Z

[cfc1909]

Ted Scott

this is good stuff. I have several of each color with the Piedmont 42 and will check them tonight.

Craig W.-Look at your 42s and tell us what the color pattern is with cards from the 350/460 and 460 only.

JR cfc1909

[tedzan]

SCOT

We are 2000 miles apart, yet our thought processes are together. I was about to note that the 350 Series
cards of Kleinow and Frank Smith also have "apple green" backs.....and, must have been printed along with
the 56 - "350/460" subjects and the 6 super-prints.

With these new SOVEREIGN back observations, we can conclude that there were the following series press
runs......

150 Series....151 Subjects....dark green backs

350 Series....140 Subjects (81 Major and 59 Minor Leaguers)....dark green backs

350 Series......64 Subjects (56 "350/460" Subjects, super-prints, Kleinow & F. Smith)....apple green backs

460 Series......52 Subjects (46 460-only cards and 6 super-prints)....light green


....Kleinow (NY).......F. Smith (Chi)................samples of early 350 press run






Incidently Scot....this Kleinow is the worst card in my set and I've been searching for 2 years to upgrade it.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Great "wild-guess"....incidently, I meant to ask you how you were pretty certain about the backs on Kleinow and Smith ?


TED Z

[White Borders]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

Craig W.-Look at your 42s and tell us what the color pattern is with cards from the 350/460 and 460 only.

JR cfc1909

I'll try to take a look later tonite (tomorrow nite at the latest) and i'll let you know.

Best Regards,
Craig

[tedzan]

I have only seen 12 confirmed Piedmont 460 Factory 42 cards from the 460-only series.

Have you any more than 12 ?


TED Z

[cfc1909]

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