T210 Orange Borders

shammus · #1 05-23-2009, 01:53 PM

Jay,

Thank you for sharing that info with us. I never knew which ones you had so I made a note of all of those in my database. Five of the cards you mentioned are cards I did not have in my records as being an orange border so that's definitely some progress right there.

I'll go ahead and share a bit of what I've tracked. I won't mention who the owners are or what they paid because that info is private. Here is a population report that I've put together thus far - 42 cards total across what now consists of 20 known series 3 players with the orange border variation --

Slaven 4
Gordon 4
Firestein 4
Burch 3
Johnston 3
Curry 2
Leidy 2
Thebo 2
Nagel 2
Blanding 2
Hooks 2
Stringer 2
Jones 2
Yantz 2
Northen 1
Alexander 1
Billiard 1
Kip 1
Munsell 1
Stinson 1

I've already added the cards of several board members to my records. If anyone thinks they've got one that I've missed, feel free to let me know!

-Brian

shammus · #2 05-23-2009, 01:57 PM

Also, not positive on this but I don't think I've ever seen what some people refer to as a true yellow bordered t210. The Thebo Leon has is pretty close it seems. The Jones I have pictured (The really rough card) has a bit of yellow in it and I used to own a Slaven that had a lot of wear on the front but also had yellow in the borders. Apparently the true yellow bordered t210s don't have traces of any orange or red anywhere?? I'm I correct in this or is the Thebo that Leon pictured about as yellow as these cards get?

FrankWakefield · #3 05-23-2009, 02:31 PM

I find threads like this one MUCH more interesting than some of the other stuff we (including me) do...

So what is that in Gordon's left hand???

In 1910 Brooks Gordon hit .205 in 73 games for the Waco Navigators. He also managed the team.

Gordon was a player for 9 seasons (1904 to 1914, with gaps), records show that he managed 8 seasons (1903 to 1914, with gaps), and in 1911 he was designated a substitute umpire for the Texas League.

Old Mill Man · #4 05-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Frank,
I agree it is these kinds of posts that are so interesting,what the photo indicates etc... Maybe he has a pack of cigg. or a book in his hand good observation.I love the card of Kelley Mascot with the bat being way too big for him.There are many unsolved tidbits and these posts are fun and can make these posts more enjoyable.I am going to see if I can find my older pics of some of the interesting T-210 cards(They are small) so others can see that some of the photo's matched the T-209 B&W's.I may do that later.

oldjudge · #5 05-23-2009, 03:03 PM

Ralph--We are both recounting anecdotal evidence. When I was working on the set I had, for a fleeting few moments, three Stengels but no Jackson. There are some cards that are in Series 6 that are true rarities (Frank and other collectors of this series can attest to that) but Stengel is not one of those cards. He is popular (as is Jackson) so, at any one moment in time, it may be tough to find one of his cards, but compared to some other cards in Series 6 he is "easy". And yes Ralph, I believe that there are more Stengels than Joe Jacksons, and many less of each than there are Wagners.

Old Mill Man · #6 05-23-2009, 03:12 PM

Jay,
Thank-you for the last post.The Stengel and Jackson cards back then were much cheaper,the first Jackson I paid $125.00 for and I think the Stengel was $75.00,the other cards were around $5.00 a pop and yes I agree with your last post and I always enjoy your post and digest the info.
Thanks Again.

wonkaticket · #7 05-23-2009, 03:58 PM

Great card Leon then again I'm biased towards this card...

Potomac Yank · #8 05-23-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I find threads like this one MUCH more interesting than some of the other stuff we (including me) do...

So what is that in Gordon's left hand???

In 1910 Brooks Gordon hit .205 in 73 games for the Waco Navigators. He also managed the team.

Gordon was a player for 9 seasons (1904 to 1914, with gaps), records show that he managed 8 seasons (1903 to 1914, with gaps), and in 1911 he was designated a substitute umpire for the Texas League.

*
*

Frank, I may be all wet, and it wont be the first time ... but
In his right hand, I'm looking at a catchers mitt, and his left hand is holding a box containing a new baseball.

What do you guys think?
Joe

Old Mill Man · #9 05-23-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I find threads like this one MUCH more interesting than some of the other stuff we (including me) do...

So what is that in Gordon's left hand???

In 1910 Brooks Gordon hit .205 in 73 games for the Waco Navigators. He also managed the team.

Gordon was a player for 9 seasons (1904 to 1914, with gaps), records show that he managed 8 seasons (1903 to 1914, with gaps), and in 1911 he was designated a substitute umpire for the Texas League.

Yes Frank and he had 40 hits that season and 2 went for doubles and 2 for homeruns so 36 singles.As for Mr. Burch who in 1910 played for the Houston Buffalo's of the texas league he Batted .212.So those two hit for low averages but still nice cards and the fun is learning the stats of each subject.
Does anyone know who the third most popular T-210 card is Going by STATS?Hint:It is not Hank Gowdy.

sb1 · #10 05-23-2009, 08:21 PM

In my experience of collecting this set for over 10 years before letting someone enjoy the completion of the set I had bought and sold 5 Stengels. I got 2 in one all series 6 deal of about 80 cards.

The Jackson always eluded me, I was the bridesmaid in several auctions.

Scott

Old Mill Man · #11 05-23-2009, 08:25 PM

Scott,
I guess it just must be if you get the right deal but the Jackson was easier for me than Stengel.It could of been a certain time or area the cards were purchased,one will never know.

FrankWakefield · #12 05-23-2009, 09:22 PM

Ralph, maybe you miss my point about Gordon. He'd been in the league since 1903, managing and playing. The one season that he isn't playing (an injury maybe?) the league president designates him as an alternate umpire for the league. Seems to me he must have been fairly well thought of in Texas League circles. I was not belittling his batting average, that's better than I hit in the minors. I think Gordon had a significant role in baseball in Texas when the red border set was released.

And Joe, I'm believing your baseball box idea. At first I thought the box a bit rectangular, but it does look consistent with a cube, and it is the size of a baseball box.

oldjudge · #13 05-24-2009, 12:09 AM

How about this for a theory--the orange borders were not a mistake, it was an experiment at making a new border color. They produced some of the series in orange, it was not popular and they stopped. Now, how do you make the color orange--you blend yellow and red. The yellow borders reflect a print run when the fellow mixing the orange either ran out of or forgot the red so only yellow was used instead of a red/yellow mixture. It's a stretch, but I guess it is possible. This happens a lot in the 1948 Leaf football set. The green used on Eagles cards was made by mixing blue and yellow. Many Eagles cards that should be green can be found in all shades from pure yellow to pure blue. Of course, no set had worse quality control than the 1948 Leaf football set.

DixieBaseball · #14 05-24-2009, 07:18 AM

Frank - I noticed the catcher's mitt as well, so I assumed that he was holding a box with a baseball in it. Then it appears to rectangle as someone suggested, so I thought it might be a brush to clear off the plate, but then I thought, mitt in hand, 2 Boxes with baseballs, like a snapshot before the game was about to start, etc..

So I would go with 2 boxes of baseballs as my 1st theory, and a plate brush as a second theory.

Lastly, I trully appreciate reading this thread and the time period when Ralph, Jay, Frank, etc. collected their T210's. (Ralph - 80's, Jay - I am guessing 90's for the most part) As Ralph suggested, what a different place in time for collecting these gems. I have been collecting the T210's pretty hard (Mostly Series 8) for 6 years or so, and I find it incredibally challenging just collecting this series and I have not passed on much either. No doubt, the internet has spawned competition, access, etc. and the day of putting this set together may have come and gone in my humble opinion. Putting a series together may be more realistic.

Here's one of my favorite T210-6's and teamate of Stengel... This player's pose (Chase of Maysville, Ky) suggest that he is better than you and he can prove it on the diamond... Gotta love it !

Keep the Thread going guys - Interesting Read -

benjulmag · #15 05-24-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

How about this for a theory--the orange borders were not a mistake, it was an experiment at making a new border color. They produced some of the series in orange, it was not popular and they stopped. Now, how do you make the color orange--you blend yellow and red. The yellow borders reflect a print run when the fellow mixing the orange either ran out of or forgot the red so only yellow was used instead of a red/yellow mixture. It's a stretch, but I guess it is possible. This happens a lot in the 1948 Leaf football set. The green used on Eagles cards was made by mixing blue and yellow. Many Eagles cards that should be green can be found in all shades from pure yellow to pure blue. Of course, no set had worse quality control than the 1948 Leaf football set.

Interesting theory. If you're correct, what does that say then about the T206 orange-variation Cobb?

oldjudge · #16 05-24-2009, 10:42 AM

Corey--To echo Sergeant Schultz, when it comes to T206's, "I know nothing". Wouldn't you think in T206s it would more likely be a little yellow getting inadvertently mixed in with the red? I don't have a clue.

Potomac Yank · #17 05-23-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I find threads like this one MUCH more interesting than some of the other stuff we (including me) do...

So what is that in Gordon's left hand???

In 1910 Brooks Gordon hit .205 in 73 games for the Waco Navigators. He also managed the team.

Gordon was a player for 9 seasons (1904 to 1914, with gaps), records show that he managed 8 seasons (1903 to 1914, with gaps), and in 1911 he was designated a substitute umpire for the Texas League.

*
*

Frank, the more I look at Gordon's left hand, the more it looks like a baseball box.
It's too big to be an Old Mill cigarette slide box, and too small to be a book.
Any thoughts.

Old Mill Man · #18 05-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Jay,
Are your saying there are more Stengel T-210's than Jackson T-210's?I have I believe the(LIST) first batch of T-210 cards I bought I believe it was 125 diff. cards and I still may have that list and in the batch was my first Joe Jackson card as the Stengel card did allude me for sometime.This is something that we could go back and forth on,I am saying it is my opinion that there are less Stengel cards than that of Jacksons and yes it could be of the way a person gets lucky in finding the card.Why was Stengel so difficult for myself with one copy but Jackson was easy (5) copies?I don't know the actaual answer but based on theory that would prove to be a numbers game as scarcity versus popularity.Correct???As for the photo's I wish I had them too but on my list they may be marked off indicating border color I will have to check.As for what Brian has done with the Orange Border list it is good.I agree that these are only ink tone variations and nothing more and why couldn't a T-210 card be found in orange border other than 3,they do exists.Brian maybe you should make a asterisk for Slaven as he has been seen in Yellow,Orange and Red,he has quite the wardrobe