T210 Orange Borders

[Old Mill Man]

One other quick note,if you have say the Burch in orange like Leon just got it can be found with the red border as well.So any card that is orange can be found red,kind of like a paralell card and vice versa.I am working on a T-210 article but have a ways to go with work and health conditions but I hope to finish soon.

[John V]

Always seeking ...Series 1 (Columbia)

[oldjudge]

Ralph--I have seen a lot of T210s and don't recall seeing a true orange border outside of Series 3. I have also found a red border for every orange border I have found. Never thought they were a big deal though, just off color in a few batches.

[shammus]

I'm still very interested in the t210 oranges from series 3. I agree with Jay - there may be more red/orangish cards from the other series, but series 3 cards are different and I DO NOT believe it to be a subtle difference in color. The 10 t210s I showed up above all are distinctly a bright neon orange color and all are from series 3. Hopefully the orange borders show up well for you guys in the scan but there is definitely a noticeable difference in person.

I use a database to keep track of every t210 orange example I've seen. So far, I've only been able to track 14-16 players out of the 90 players in that set. However, certain players like Slaven, Gordon and Burch have come up 3-4 times apiece.

[Leon]

Thanks for posting your Orange T210's. I guess maybe I need to back off for you? .... I was hoping someone would post some more of them and am glad you did. For the record these orange ones have a nice premium associated with them...I would guess about 3x-6x from my informal "swag" watching of them.. They are certainly no big deal to some just the way other printing errors are no big deal in other sets.....though all errors seem to be desired by more and more collectors.

[FrankWakefield]

I've seen somewhere between 800 and 900 T210s, only seen orange borders on series 3 cards.

I think completing the Old Mill Red Border set is a task more difficult than completing the White Border tobacco card set. The tough cards in T206 are out there, a fellow just has to have enough money to pay and a Wagner can be had. With T210s I think that just because a fellow has a pile of cash and a yearning for Joe Jackson's T210 card, it doesn't mean one is available. I see T210 Jacksons offered for sale less often than T206 Wagners. Similarly, if you have the money a T206 Plank can be found. To a lesser extent, the same seems true for the T210 Stengel, just because a fellow has cash in hand doesn't mean one is available for purchase. So congratulations to you for putting together 640 of them in 5 years.

[oldjudge]

Here is a list of the orange borders I have: Alexander, Billiard, Blanding, Burch, Firestine, Gordon, Hooks, Johnston, Jones, Kipp, Leidy, Munsell, Nagel, Slaven, Stinson, Stringer, and Yantz. I have the comparable red border for all but Slavin, Burch and Alexander. I have never put much effort into getting the orange border or, once I have them, the comparable red border so these just "fell" my way.

[FrankWakefield]

Here's the only orange border I still have, it is Gordon with Waco. He's beside a normal red border Old Mill for contrast purposes.

I still think this... 1- all series 3 cards can be found with a red border; 2- some series 3 cards can be found with both a red border and an orange border.

I suspect some kids threw the orange ones away because they looked funny, or different. I think there were fewer orange ones to start with, and that they were more susceptible to attrition.

I don't know what to think about those yellow borders.




What's in Gordon's left hand? A brush???

[DixieBaseball]

I have been collecting the T210's for several years now, and have seen hundreds, but never saw a Orange Border outside Series 3. If one exists outside series 3, I would love to see a scan. I concur with Frank as well, putting the T210 set together has to be more difficult than T206. How much more difficult, I have no idea, but just putting together Series 6,7, & 8 can keep a man busy for a decade. Ralph - My hat is off to you for putting the entire set together in 5 years. That is remarkable. What year's did you put it
together ?

Regards,

JJ

P.S. - Brian - Nice Slaven !

[Old Mill Man]

Jay,
As for the series I indicated I know series 3 is the most plentiful but the other series I listed had the orange borders as well but not as many per series and I have even seen a series 2 now and then so they come out of the wood work.As for the years I started the t-210's in 1982 and was done shortly after my Grandfather's death in 87.I know of only one other collector who did it first but it took him longer to do it and the way he housed the cards was with the old black photo pages with 4 slits for each corner and I know of another collector who is one short of them all.I am working on a article as to the cards players,the ones who made it to the big leagues.The Joe Jackson card in which I personally owned 5 at one time and the Stengel is tougher to find.I went through thousands of cards and I did it when there was no internet which I think is remarkable and I wish I had the photo's of the cards on computer ,I do have some photo's of some of my favorite old mills but the pics are so small.The one thing about the T-210 cards is they are not as colorful as t-206's in which makes them less popular but if you want a challenge try doing the entire set and see if you can do it,I guarantee you won't do it in 5 years because the computers make the competeition so much greater,back in my time it was mail auctions and I had help with veteran dealers and I was able to chat with one Bill Haber and I have somewhere in my possesion a photo of his cards in the black photo paper along with his stengel card but they are in B&W as we had no scanners back then.As for how many Jackson's exist I can't put a actual number on it but at one time I knew of 12 my five,4 with one other veteran collector and three with another,I am guessing 25 or more and I will say that Stengel T-210 cards are less plentiful. Just my opinions.If you have more to add please do as I loved these cards and they still are my favorites.

[oldjudge]

Ralph--I would love to see a scan of a non-Series 3 orange border card. As for the scarcity of Stengel my experience has been the opposite of yours. I think Stengel is one of the more common Series 6 cards. Maybe it's just a function of what you run into. I look forward to your article.

[shammus]

Jay,

Thank you for sharing that info with us. I never knew which ones you had so I made a note of all of those in my database. Five of the cards you mentioned are cards I did not have in my records as being an orange border so that's definitely some progress right there.

I'll go ahead and share a bit of what I've tracked. I won't mention who the owners are or what they paid because that info is private. Here is a population report that I've put together thus far - 42 cards total across what now consists of 20 known series 3 players with the orange border variation --

Slaven 4
Gordon 4
Firestein 4
Burch 3
Johnston 3
Curry 2
Leidy 2
Thebo 2
Nagel 2
Blanding 2
Hooks 2
Stringer 2
Jones 2
Yantz 2
Northen 1
Alexander 1
Billiard 1
Kip 1
Munsell 1
Stinson 1

I've already added the cards of several board members to my records. If anyone thinks they've got one that I've missed, feel free to let me know!

-Brian

[shammus]

Also, not positive on this but I don't think I've ever seen what some people refer to as a true yellow bordered t210. The Thebo Leon has is pretty close it seems. The Jones I have pictured (The really rough card) has a bit of yellow in it and I used to own a Slaven that had a lot of wear on the front but also had yellow in the borders. Apparently the true yellow bordered t210s don't have traces of any orange or red anywhere?? I'm I correct in this or is the Thebo that Leon pictured about as yellow as these cards get?

[FrankWakefield]

I find threads like this one MUCH more interesting than some of the other stuff we (including me) do...

So what is that in Gordon's left hand???

In 1910 Brooks Gordon hit .205 in 73 games for the Waco Navigators. He also managed the team.

Gordon was a player for 9 seasons (1904 to 1914, with gaps), records show that he managed 8 seasons (1903 to 1914, with gaps), and in 1911 he was designated a substitute umpire for the Texas League.

[Old Mill Man]

Jay,
Are your saying there are more Stengel T-210's than Jackson T-210's?I have I believe the(LIST) first batch of T-210 cards I bought I believe it was 125 diff. cards and I still may have that list and in the batch was my first Joe Jackson card as the Stengel card did allude me for sometime.This is something that we could go back and forth on,I am saying it is my opinion that there are less Stengel cards than that of Jacksons and yes it could be of the way a person gets lucky in finding the card.Why was Stengel so difficult for myself with one copy but Jackson was easy (5) copies?I don't know the actaual answer but based on theory that would prove to be a numbers game as scarcity versus popularity.Correct???As for the photo's I wish I had them too but on my list they may be marked off indicating border color I will have to check.As for what Brian has done with the Orange Border list it is good.I agree that these are only ink tone variations and nothing more and why couldn't a T-210 card be found in orange border other than 3,they do exists.Brian maybe you should make a asterisk for Slaven as he has been seen in Yellow,Orange and Red,he has quite the wardrobe