Even the so called good guys...ugly hobby?

wonkaticket · #1 05-13-2009, 01:35 AM

"I do think that JK made a good point that maybe he reviewed cards and didnt give the true feedback. This could happen for many reasons, some good and some not so much. I for one would hate to tell someone that their most prized card is altered, bleh."

Scott understood but do you think I enjoyed telling the owners of the Hart card who I consider close friends their five figure card and pride of their T206 back collection was a fake?

The point is even that argument holds little water for me if you're out to make the hobby a better place you can't just do that for your pals or hold back info to protect your feelings or someone else’s IMO.

Besides I think the comments Kevin made were very telling to me regardless of how you dice it.

I never did considered Kevin quite the white knight a lot of folks did but I wasn't turned off to him either. I just always chalked Kevin up to be somewhat of a self promoting business man with an idea for a 4th party review service for big dollar cards. Not unlike the card pricing site business startups awhile back using the board as a platform etc.

Now after reading this I'm pretty clear and have come to the conclusion I would never send Kevin any $$$ cards and his creditability with me is way below that of any of the 3rd party grading companies.

Do I think Kevin is a master forger nope I think Kevin is his own biggest fan in that area.

I do feel that honest folks don’t say stuff like that or even allude to it joke or not that's what really bothers me.

I also thought the folks on here should know. I would feel pretty bad if Kevin did turn out bad later on and folks who were sending him cards got burned in someway.

With that said I do respect all of your opinions that's what is great about discussions like this.

Cheers,

John

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-13-2009, 06:26 AM

My recollection is that the last time Jim C. spoke on the subject he said Kevin had NOT actually reviewed any cards for him.

MikeU · #3 05-13-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My recollection is that the last time Jim C. spoke on the subject he said Kevin had NOT actually reviewed any cards for him.

For the record, I have received confirmation from Jim C. that none of his cards were ever reviewed by Kevin.

Abravefan11 · #4 05-13-2009, 06:49 PM

I take the stance on forgers and scammers in our hobby that MLB does with gamblers.

You don't scam anyone or forge baseball cards ever. You don't associate with know scammers or forgers.

This is the cardinal rule and if you break it you lose all credibility and are not given a second chance.

I would never, under any circumstance claim to have stolen from anyone, even my worst enemy.

cfc1909 · #5 05-14-2009, 03:58 PM

Dan B -I am not really sure what Scott has done to you and I only know some of the history with him and Leon but as far as I know he has not comitted fraud or cheated anyone in a deal. He does write harsh things on his board and he has said enough to be kicked off this board and does that mean he has no integrity?
He may threaten you but not your collection like the Museum-I would say that is no integrity.

My dealings with Scott have all been good and he has added very nice cards to my collection. He is very knowledgable with vintage cards and did help me with my research on the bar Old Mills.
I know many on here don't like him but he is not as bad as he is made out to be. At least not to me.

I guess we disagree on this one but that is part of a chat board
JR

Leon · #6 05-14-2009, 04:41 PM

Yes we can agree to disagree on how bad Elkins is. NO good person raises animals to kill each other in the manner of which idiot Elkins did. Sorry, it's never been ok with me. Also, maybe you don't know but Scott bought a card from me on ebay then stopped payment on it after he got the card. I still have the stopped payment check. After about 6 mos, with enough people calling him a thief, he finally reimbursed me. He said he was teaching me a lesson for BCD supposedly ripping him off. I guess that is ok too? Saying on his stupid board that I have sold drugs to children is something I really should press charges on as it is complete fabrication. It's an open and shut case and I am contemplating doing it. I am not sure what I could get though as I hear double wides don't hold good resale value. And the fact he is a deadbeat means there probably isn't enough in a bank account to really go after. I guess those lies are ok too? Really now....if ya' hang around with lunatics long enough people can get the wrong idea. But to each their own. I won't talk about it anymore but when I hear someone saying he's not so bad it sort of makes me puke. He is actually much, much worse than he is made out to be. Take care now...

carrigansghost · #7 05-14-2009, 04:49 PM

Ease up on the double wide stuff, I have to live somewhere and I do own the land. I'm kidding of course, I do have a house with no wheels, but the car is on blocks. With you 100% Leon.

Rawn

cfc1909 · #8 05-14-2009, 04:53 PM

I agree not paying for six months is not good. I have never meet Scott in person and I understand what you are saying. I enjoy 54 and I wont say anymore. My posts will be about vintage cards, unless I find another bad Museum

jmk59 · #9 05-13-2009, 06:36 AM

I agree that it's hard to imagine he's done this, as I stated in my first post, because of the logistical difficulty of getting one particular card into the hands of one particular person.

But what bothers me a lot - a ton - is wondering if that has been the only reason it hasn't happened. Because it sure looks to me like the rest of it is there - the desire to do it, maybe the intent to do it, the skill to do it, possibly even the plotting or trying to figure out how to do it.

And Dan, bravado is definitely a reasonable first read. But it bothers me that it was so unsolicited and that it was a claim of something already done.

My read is that this is something he has at least considered at a level beyond idle musings. And given that he is able to make some really sophisticated alterations, that is a scary thought.

J

barrysloate · #10 05-13-2009, 07:49 AM

Joann- Kevin has been a good guy and despite his odd post I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But there are many people with paper restoration skills, and a percentage of them are doing bad things. And many of the cards they have expertly repaired have been submitted to grading services. I have absolutely no idea how many get caught, but I can say with certainty a percentage of them get slabbed. And these cards have circulated around the hobby. Many of them will continue to transact and never be detected, others will be intercepted. It's very unfortunate, but it's out there.

Leon · #11 05-13-2009, 07:56 AM

All I will say on this subject is that

Birds of a feather flock together.

(pun intended...sorry Jon (sic) I couldn't resist)...

barrysloate · #12 05-13-2009, 08:16 AM

I wish I understood Leon's cryptic message.

HRBAKER · #13 05-13-2009, 08:25 AM

birds/flock/chickens/feathers?

slidekellyslide · #14 05-13-2009, 08:27 AM

Barry, he's not talking about you....he's talking about Kevin and Elkins. While I think Elkins is pond scum I also don't believe he is out to screw the hobby over.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 05-13-2009, 08:31 AM

Kevin is the least of the hobby's worries, for the reasons stated by Barry, among others.