I tried........ I really did

Archive · #1 04-16-2009, 02:37 PM

Posted By: steve

On a raw card purchase - ahh, the smell, the way you can hold it for light refraction, no case to get in the way ! Reminds you how it felt to be a kid again.

Well, after a few raw purchases started to arrive, Damn it !!! You people that sell raw just about ALWAYS overstate the grade, Damn it !!! Thats it ! I have had it! NO MORE raw card purchases - PERIOD !!!

Too bad ya gotta go graded - Bummer.

Rant for the day, steve.

Archive · #2 04-16-2009, 02:45 PM

Posted By: Michael C

I buy raw. It can be a crap shoot on ebay sometimes, but as long as you don't overpay for raw and expect something worthy of a high grade from PSA or SGC than you will be alright most of the time.

I prefer raw cards, but I would never buy something very expensive or rare without a holder.

Archive · #3 04-16-2009, 02:50 PM

Posted By: Jason L

been burned earlier on in my first Ebay days...turns out much of the stuff I bought didn't measure up...alot of post-war HOFer stuff.

I don't buy raw anymore at all, unless for some reason I really don't care about the potential for resale value...certain parts of the collection are not value-driven at all.

If I may be so nosy, what kind of material were you buying: pre or post-war? anything big money? (for me, that means anything more than $100)
would be interested to hear if there was any pattern to the disappointment...

Archive · #4 04-16-2009, 02:54 PM

Posted By: Anthony S.

Haven't had any problems buying raw from the BST. I always take Ebay sellers self-grades with a grain of salt, unless it's a seller I've purchased from before and trust (David Bryan, Barry Sloate, etc.)

Archive · #5 04-16-2009, 02:58 PM

Posted By: MJ

I buy almost exclusively raw - not looking to find a treasure or expect it to grade high SHOULD I choose to grade. I only buy the graded stuff when it's over a particular $$$ amount - would hate to spend a ton of money on a reprint.

And I actually like the beat up cards - gives them a tremendous amount of character (and it's kind of neat to hold something that someone else held a 100 years ago).

On a slightly different note - I never pay over a certain amount of money for raw cards - helps me build up my master set without having to be a grading-snob (don't mean to offend anyone out there - just my choice of collecting). I've learned, through auctions and ebay and other resources, about what a raw card could go for, sometimes significantly less than market. I've studied it hard and I can almost dictate what raw cards will sell for and adjust any snipes, bids, or what have you. Ironically, I'm going primarily for the Tolstoi, Sov, and the PB backs....they just look cool hehehehehehe

Archive · #6 04-16-2009, 03:09 PM

Posted By: steve

The cards I purchased were 1970's raw superstar HOFers - seller(s) claimed MINT and NM+. I was a kid collecting packs in the 70's - want to get back some of my youth cards - in top quality raw - hahaha, oh, well.

Not for one second would I ever consider raw for over $50. - obviously, my T206's were all bought pre-graded by SGC or PSA - I am smart enough to be smart with the old vintage goodies.

steve

Archive · #7 04-16-2009, 03:23 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Hi Steve,
I have been buying quite a lot of 50's, 60's and 70's stuff on ebay lately and you can pretty much count on so called NM/M cards actually being more like VG/EX or EX. I bid accordingly. Most of the time I check the Standard Catalog for the VG price and I bid no more than 50% of the VG book price. I have won quite a few auctions with this method and I have picked up some decent cards for a decent price.

Rick

Archive · #8 04-16-2009, 04:28 PM

Posted By: marty q

i feel somewhat the same way. all of my 1950's sets topps and bowman are raw, if i upgrade with a graded card i bust it out,(unless its an expensive card, eg.over 500, but thats me) but with pre-war i go graded, if i am going to spend good money i want either sgc or psa to look at it, and i try my hardest to "look" at it myself, way to much doctoring going on, much more than 50-60's stuff... cards are always better in the sellers eyes!! but you can still buy raw and be successful, ted z does fine himself, but i am sure on a cobb or other h.o.f. purchase he will look at it in hand, forget ebay with raw pre-war, if its not in a holder there is a reason why!! remember that...special circumstances apply of course...

Archive · #9 04-16-2009, 04:31 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback

One of the primary reasons for grading is too many sellers overgrade their cards.

Archive · #10 04-16-2009, 04:31 PM

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Not really any more of a crapshoot than buying a slabbed card. True, it has the number it has, but as for the card, some are what the graders thought they were, some cards aren't. The graders getting them right is another crapshoot.

The lesson I learned once was to never bet on the other man's trick. Bet on whether you can or can't do something, but not what they can do... I saw a jack of spades rise up out of a deck, untouched by hands. One beautiful card trick. I lost the bet on it, I learned a really neat card trick, and a great life lesson... never bet on the other man's trick.

So I'll take crapshoots on my ability to identify and judge a card, but not take crapshoots on slabbed cards.

Archive · #11 04-16-2009, 04:37 PM

Posted By: Rob D.

Well, it was only a matter of time.

Archive · #12 04-16-2009, 04:50 PM

Posted By: Steve

This is something new?

Steve

Archive · #13 04-16-2009, 04:54 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Steve, I agree. I had never bought graded cards until I began putting together a 1958 Topps raw set. The cards I purchased from ebay were so wildly overgraded that I vowed never again to spend any real money on a raw card (when condition was the paramount purchasing factor).

Archive · #14 04-16-2009, 04:57 PM

Posted By: leon

Some folks don't like third party graders? Learn something new every day...

Saying that buying graded cards is as much of a crapshoot as buying raw is a falsehood. Plain and simple. Have we discussed grading lately?

Archive · #15 04-16-2009, 05:13 PM

Posted By: Rob D.

The only thing I'll buy raw is a Ferguson Bakery premium.

Archive · #16 04-16-2009, 05:22 PM

Posted By: Bob

I will buy raw pre-war cards on ebay but if the price is over $200 I'll ask for a guarantee that it will grade with some number. The last raw card I bought on ebay that I got sliced and diced on was a gorgeous E94 Dougherty about a year ago that looked EX+ and I paid a pretty decent price for it. It now resides in an SGC AUT holder.

Archive · #17 04-16-2009, 06:25 PM

Posted By: Jim Rivera

I have bought plenty of raw cards and it goes both ways. I have bought a raw Lenox t206 and it graded a SGC 60 and another is in a A holder. Most of my raw purchases that are good were more than 4 to 5 years ago but there are still good raw cards out there.
You need to get good at looking at scans-usually if the scan is good the seller is not hiding anything and if the scan is bad usually the seller is hiding something.

Archive · #18 04-16-2009, 06:53 PM

Posted By: Tim Cathey

I never base my bid price on a grade provided by the seller of a raw card. I usually only bid on raw cards with nice large scans and still do so with some reservation. I have won several nice cards for good buys and have received a few that had flaws that just didn't show up in the scan.

Buying raw is a gamble but the less you stick your neck out the less likely it is to get chopped off.

If the card is of any significant value I question why it isn't being sold in a slab.

Yes, there is a variance in slabbed cards of the same grade, but it's not even close to the variance of grades provided by dealers.

Archive · #19 04-17-2009, 04:40 AM

Posted By: Geno

Why buy raw when you can collect multiple copies of graded cards with the same Registry number? You can't get screwed by graded cards as long as you accept the fact that you will get fakes sometimes...

Take Care,
Geno

(Scan stolen from another thread - but worth seeing again):

[linked image]

Archive · #20 04-17-2009, 07:10 AM

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

"Great post, Geno!", said Frank, as he crawled out from under the pile.

Archive · #21 04-17-2009, 07:39 AM

Posted By: Steve

"Yes, there is a variance in slabbed cards of the same grade, but it's not even close to the variance of grades provided by dealers."

IMO the variance is wider with people claiming to be dealers.

Most of the over graded raw is from sellers who are not dealers.

JMHO

Steve

Archive · #22 04-17-2009, 09:02 AM

Posted By: Jason L

"Really? What do you sell?"

"I peddle reality and broken dreams."

Archive · #23 04-17-2009, 09:11 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

"My name is Joel Goodson. I deal in human fulfillment. I grossed over eight thousand dollars in one night. Time of your life, huh kid?"

Archive · #24 04-17-2009, 10:03 AM

Posted By: Alan

Sometimes you just gotta say WTF [linked image]

Archive · #25 04-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Posted By: fkw

Im many cases Raw cards are graded right, at least the way they were all graded back before 1990.
The Graded Industry actually changed the grading standard. Cards (PSA, SGC etc.) are now conservatively graded compared to what they used to be graded as.

Oldschool collectors sometimes still use the older standards. I still do to a point.

A card with rounded corners and 2-3 creases is not a Poor card IMO