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#51
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: leon
In my studying they have been known about since the 1950's.....according to Burdick and Bray and what I have read...(the checklist shown is from mid-late 50's to early 60's time frame) |
#52
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: barrysloate
I'm going to agree with Dave and say the Cobb brand "piggy-backed" on the success of all the other tobacco cards circulating and were released after the 460 series, perhaps well after. They saw how popular the cigarette cards were and copied the idea for a brand that likely failed and disappeared very quickly. Who knows, maybe Ty Cobb tobacco was poor quality and didn't catch on with the public, and ultimately failed. |
#53
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Scot Reader
Ted, |
#54
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Leon beat me to the "punch" with proof positive. But, us old dudes were well aware of this |
#55
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Paul Kaufman
I don't collect this set, but I also asked SGC to remove the card from its set registry listing about a year ago. No response from SGC. I found their listing of it in the set registry to be inconsistent, since they did not list any other T206 by card back type. It is unfair to require this card to have a complete SGC T206 set.......a Cobb Portrait Red of any back type should suffice. Just my two cents. |
#56
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: MVSNYC
for whatever it's worth, PSA used to have the Cobb/Cobb as part of the set reg, now it has since been taken out. |
#57
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Brian Wentz
Of the total population of Ty Cobb brand tobacco cards, there is at least one (PSA Authentic) example where the front and back are flipped -- meaning the reverse is glossy like a T213 or Tango Egg and the obverse has the traditional dull, matte finish. Furthermore, this specimen is obviously hand-cut by an amateur (wavy edges) and the fact that it could very well be a printer's trial or scrap lends more credence to the general consensus that this is a mere test or promotional issue and not part of the T206 White Border set. |
#58
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Joe D.
now... the cobby red is the earlier one (from what I've been told). |
#59
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
I used to own the PSA "Authentic" Cobb/Cobb back (until a couple of weeks ago) and it did not have the gloss on the front. It was just like every other T206 Cobb red on the front. Contra Brian Wentz' claim, it did NOT have gloss on the back either. Unless Brian is referring to a different "Authentic" example, the one PSA "Authentic" example that I am aware of does not have any gloss on either side. |
#60
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
"And if we find out Ty Cobb brand was prior to the T206 printing... then that is a new scenario altogether - and we may have to consider the card the mother of all T206s!!!" |
#61
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
"And, the North Carolina District infers that it was most likely issued with an L&M product..... |
#62
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
Scot wrote: |
#63
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: barrysloate
Jim- you are absolutely correct that we have no definitive proof, and I admit everything I've said on this thread was speculation. It's just a gut feeling that there is something about this card, as I delineated in my several posts, that doesn't seem consistent to me. I wish there was more proof, and that we knew more about it. If I had to make a guess, I would say it is not part of the T206 set. But guesses can be wrong, too. |
#64
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Brian Weisner
Hi Jim, |
#65
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
The Green Cobb and the Cobb (bat on) were printed 1st in the 150 Series. |
#66
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
Ted said, |
#67
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Joe D.
Thanks Ted. |
#68
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Well I once, years ago, thought of the Ty Cobb wTC back card as a T206. When I learned they had glossy fronts, I wondered about it... and why no other players, just Ty. |
#69
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Since you seem to doubt my info regarding the Ty Cobb card being a post 1911 issue....which, |
#70
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Richard
I don't know if it means anything, but T209s were also printed in the 4th Dist, NC. |
#71
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
So "4th Dist. N.C." could indicate that it either was an ATC (and thus T206) brand or that it was Liggett and Meyers (and thus not a T206) brand. There is evidence of that designation in both cases. We still need more information. |
#72
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
By the way, earlier today I read through a 65 page article on the early history of Liggett and Meyers and there was no mention of the Ty Cobb brand. |
#73
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I find it pretty interesting that the ONLY two people on this thread who have held a Cobb/Cobb in their hands within the last week have BOTH said that theirs did NOT have a "glossy" front. |
#74
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: barrysloate
Hal- that's a very interesting point, because while I saw REA's five in person, I'm not sure I've held another one. How could they be known with and without the glossy front? All five that REA had have since been slabbed, so nothing improper was found. |
#75
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
With these Ty Cobb cards being so rare, can we trust the Grader to know the difference ? |
#76
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Scot Reader
Hi Jim, |
#77
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Steve M.
I don't know whether this is helpful to the discussion but my review of all 20th century tobacco non-sports sets T1 through T177 show none having a Factory 33 designation. All other factories that are known to T206 are represented. |
#78
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I, too, have searched hi-n-lo to try to find another Factory #33 card of any kind, and have |
#79
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: David Smith
While looking for something else in a box of things, I found an "Official Political and other Valuable INFORMATION 1912" booklet from Liggett & Myers. |
#80
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Judson Hamlin
This is what happens while some of us work? Good thing my office blocks forums like this or I would get nothing done... |
#81
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#82
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Anonymous
My card had a glossy front. |
#83
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
Hal, |
#84
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: barry arnold
I have read and reread this thread a number of times---I understand full |
#85
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Anonymous
I held the one Mastro auctioned off a couple years ago in my hand at a show. |
#86
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I cannot emphasize this enough....but, the key to unravelling this mystery is in the bottom line |
#87
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: barrysloate
Certainty may elude us. |
#88
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Darren
Maybe it was a T206 promo. |
#89
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
It seems as though we have moved from going on hunches to looking for evidence. I view this as a major step forward. |
#90
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: warshawlaw
Ah, Ted, the age-old (well, ten year old) question. If an item is so rare that virtually none exist, how does anyone looking it over authenticate it? And how does anyone at Slabco do it, since they weren't the ones in on the finds, etc. |
#91
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Brett
Someone should try to tack down the relatives of the people who actually worked at the factories where some t206s were made ! |
#92
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Until we hear more from Brian W.....I am chasing down the "North Carolina district", |
#93
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Your very prescient question echos my post on this Thread on Mar 6th. |
#94
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Jon Canfield
I contacted my friend out in California who is a leading expert on cigarette packs (not baseball related) and inquired about Factory 33, 4th District of N.C. to see if any other cigarettes were ever produced at the factory. As it turns out, the only record he had of cigarettes being produced there the F. R. Penn Tob. Co. made Penbarry Cigarettes there in 1927. Now, F.R. Penn Tob was related to the American Tobacco Company (successors). |
#95
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Could this be the "TY COBB Smoking Tobacco FACTORY #33 - 4" .....? ? |
#96
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Dave Hornish
Is that the one they are converting into condos? |
#97
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: MVSNYC
i'm actually embarassed to ask this (being a pretty knowledgable T206 guy)... |
#98
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: Dave Hornish
T206 were printed in New York by American Lithographic Company then presumably shipped to local factory where they were inserted in packs. I believe US law at the time required tobacco companies to identify the factory of origin for their product. Presumably this is why there are some overstruck factory numbers for some brands in T206, at least IMHO. |
#99
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: JimB
Ted, |
#100
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Further Thoughts about Red Cobb with Cobb back
Posted By: MVSNYC
jimB- |
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