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#1
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
There is a person on our BST that is posting under MRholdings. He has not responded to several email requests. Please be extremely careful.... |
#2
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Matt
nevermind |
#3
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
I am not interested in the cards being offered as to the reason I want to be emailed. Others were before me on saying they would take them. This has to do with the safety of the board. If this person doesn't email me this evening their IP will probably be banned. You can't come on our BST anonymously, tout higher end items, and then not respond to emails that were sent within 8 minutes of the post AND also for not emailing a moderator when asked.....regards |
#4
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: MR Holdings
I just got back from dinner, and I am kind of shocked by the overwhelming interest in the items that I have posted... and I am in the process of responding to all of the e-mails that I received. I posted on the forum on my lunch hour and then got caught up at work and did not get a chance to check my e-mail and the forum until now. Everyone that has e-mailed me requesting scans will get them tonight, and I can assure you that everyone that purchases a card from me will get it without any problem. |
#5
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
Please email me MR.....You really can't be anonymous on the BST...Hope you had a nice dinner....regards |
#6
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Donavon Arabie
Try this link. I find it the easiest to use in resizing images. |
#7
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
3:37pm and 8:40pm are kind of weird lunch times for today....... |
#8
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
fantastic prices for those rare cards. congrats and good luck to the buyers. |
#9
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
I have some confirmations so good luck to all... |
#10
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
hmmm so now we have a green back e98 overprint?...and the old put stamp is bluish. i thought they were always darker than that. |
#11
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
Neither stamp is like I have ever seen. I did speak with someone and they confirmed some things. Still, these overprints are some like I have never seen before...which happens .... |
#12
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
font seems off to me tbh...here's the 2 red cobb/wagner i found in rea. |
#13
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Tim Kindler
I would never challenge someone's integrity without knowing the whole story so I will side on the side of error here. I hope that MRholdings is selling this Green Old Put Back mistakingly thinking that it is real, because it IS NOT a genuine Old Put stamp. I am 99.9% sure of that. I own 3 myself, including the Wagner that Quan has posted, thank you Quan, and I have seen others from fellow collector's collections and the ink color is wrong and the font size is wrong. It looks like someone has tried to cut a stamper or die to look like an origional.....very poorly I might add. If you go back into old threads, this forging of stamps was talked about as a possiblility and it looks like we have finally seen one. Like I said, hopefully this seller is honestly and mistakingly trying to sell a fake. At least I hope this is the case. |
#14
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
I looked at the E94 Oh You Fan overprint listed for sale and immediately said to myself "that looks like crap".....but, it's in an SGC holder? We don't need to take this thread there as we all know humans can make mistakes...but back to topic...I dunno....the title of the thread is still appropriate. I am trying to get past the fact there are TWO UNIQUE ones out of two cards.....it could happen.... |
#15
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
i'm not e94 OP expert, cuz i've never owned one...but the e98 stamp is not sharp/crisp like the other 2, and it's not a "fading" problem or a light stamp. at the very least the buyer should get a provenance or genesis of where the card came from. that story should be quite interesting. |
#16
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
First of all....to echo Quan's thoughts I am always wary of overprints. I like provenance. |
#17
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Bill Cornell
Both stamps look wrong. Could Jay Behrens' prophecy about knockoff stamps have come true? Gasp! |
#18
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Rhett Yeakley
Here is a back stamp on a R310 that I have had for a little while. |
#19
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Scott Levy
Typically I'm not so inquisitive to look behind the curtain, but in this instance, I'd feel a bit better if the proprietor behind MR Holdings identified himself personally. After all, with some high end cards, perhaps one or more of us has dealt with him/her/them. |
#20
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
Those stamps are small too but there are 3 of them. I just looked on about 5 different type cards I have and none had as small of stamps, relative to the size of the card, than the one posted above. I have seen a few dozen others and don't remember any that small...but it's certainly possible... |
#21
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Jim Manos
I know the guy and have bought and sold with him before, I didn't know he had a computer...I sold him that R310 card and I got it from Mark Macrae along with a few others....One actually still have. I think u guys r wrong, but whatever. His father or uncle or something was a big collector in Columbus yrs ago(now deceased). Also did u notice the E98 had no #1 of the list of 30 cards?? Dunno but he is a weird dude but I would not say he is dishonest at all. I have had the guy at my house and sold things to him many times and seen him at the Vets Show. I don't know of the other items but Mark can attest to the Karmel Shop cards. I do like the Sugardale if I had any $... |
#22
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
I have a little bit of mixed feelings about throwing this gent under the bus, publicly, contact-wise. He did email me his contact info and I WILL SHARE it privately as I too don't think you can't be anonymous with high ticket items on the BST. |
#23
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Tim Kindler
The missing #1 could be just flaked off like half the #29 and #30 are. His scanner, and trust me, mine is worse, might not be the best out there to show that paper loss. As I stated in my two cents earlier in the thread, I DO think that the E98 is fake, but that it might not be something that the seller is aware of and that the seller is hopefully not trying to purposely scam a buyer. I don't feel that Leon or anyone who has responded is throwing the seller under the bus. I think for the most part,those who are responding have been polite in holding their judgement till more is learned about the situation. |
#24
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: robert a
The E98 Old Put is not even close in my opinion. ALL of the other Old Puts are consistent with the color of ink, boldness, clarity around the edges of the lettering, etc. as the two that Quan posted above the Jennings example. And the green front? I'm not buying it. |
#25
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Bill Cornell
I don't feel that Leon or anyone who has responded is throwing the seller under the bus. I think for the most part,those who are responding have been polite in holding their judgement till more is learned about the situation. |
#26
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Bob
I'll give the seller the benefit of the doubt but I know a little bit about caramel card overprints and the Old Put on the E98 is a forgery although the card appears legit. The E94 Moore is legit but the overprint on the back is all wrong. Shame... |
#27
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Mark T
MR holdings did respond to me last night and sent scans. Below is the scan from MR and under that is Leon's card. Of course both look different but it is in SGC holder. I have opportunity to purchase the E94 Moore but would love to hear from SGC. |
#28
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Tim Kindler
Bill, |
#29
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Jim Manos
Just got up and read through these posts. Real quick, when I talked to u last night I think u miss understood me. As I have not slept for 3 days as my little girl Saylor is still at Childrens Hospital with RSV. I know the guy I owned both the overprint and the R310 (bought R310 from Macrae) I sold them to MR. I had it graded so I can't answer for SGC...I was in a hurry and quickly read your posts regarding the E98. The OLD Put I have no clue on. I actually owned 2 diff overprints purchased at the Vets Show in Oct. Consigned the other to an auction house. I will check but I think SGC graded the other as well. Off to the hospital... |
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Shawn
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#31
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
First off I really hope your little girl continues to get better as you said she was last night. |
#32
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: barrysloate
If this thread needs one more opinion, I doubt there is any chance that the Old Put and E94 overprint are real. And if I am correct that this is the first time the seller has posted on the board, this is not a good introduction. |
#33
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Shawn
I am going to go out on a limb here... Notice the font on the ad I posted above, "The George Close Co." appears to be the same as is on the card in question. I have looked at other cards today with the stamp on the back and have not seen one that has the same font as is in the ad or on the back of MRs card. I am talking about the "George Close" portion of the stamp only. It is my belief that if someone were to make a fake, they would use something similar to the "known" stamps. The odds of creating a stamp with the exact font as is on the ad above would seem to be nil. I am going to guess that the stamp on the card in question is an earlier version, simply based on the fact the the ad is older than the e94s. |
#34
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
A few quick points. I just spoke with SGC about this situation. They are aware and are taking another look....obviously without the card in hand though. Here is another situation. I am understanding the seller has 7 more E94 Overprints.....I would love to see scans.....regards |
#35
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Shawn
The more I look and think about it, it seems it would have to be real. There is just no way someone got that Font right! The odds to me are just impossible. |
#36
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Brian
We'd like to thank the Net54 community for bringing this to our attention. We've been in contact with the original submitter of the E94 Moore. The card is being sent back to us and we will review it at that time. |
#37
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
again i'm not making judgement on the e94 as i've never closely studied them, but if this variation is legit(?)...what's stopping a 3rd or 4th different font from surfacing, or an 11th or 12th different banner with the tie-in being "The George Close Co"? What process is SGC using to determine whether the stamp is authentic? |
#38
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
I am not speaking for SGC but I would hope they use exemplars of known ones. I know 8 of my 10 are pictured in Lipest's encyclopedia from 25 yrs ago...They were probably worth $20 each at the time so most likely they are real.....I doubt we can ever be 100% certain of anything but we can make rational judgements....I think if SGC gets back this E94 and doesn't feel comfortable with it they will undo it. It's no different than a mfg cut pre-war card that doesn't meet size requirements. They don't have to deem it trimmed to not holder it. I would guess most of us have cards, or have owned cards, we thought were good but didn't meet the requirements to be slabbed. I would still like to see the others in this group......regards |
#39
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Zinn
but I hope when SGC takes a second look that it doesn't knee jerk dismiss it as fake and takes the time to examine all of the evidence including the font style shown in the pic above. |
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: robert a
Shawn, |
#41
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Matt
I'm confused - Manos says he bought the card with the stamp raw at a show and submitted it to SGC and then sold it to MRHoldings? What about the other overstamped cards? |
#42
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Todd Schultz
While you can use known exemplars, they alone do not solve the question of authenticity. I would assume that SGC studied the card thoroughly the first time. It is obvious that the font and font color are different--presumably that did not escape the graders. It is questionable to me that a faker would use a different color--why raise such an obvious flag that the card is different? It's not being touted as a rare, one of one green variation. I also concur with another poster who wondered how that ad font could be matched so well, and why not simply try and copy what is known to exist. I think there's a decent chance this overprint is real. |
#43
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: Shawn
Robert, |
#44
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
is there a method to date the ink being used? whether they be period, 1950's, 1975's etc. sgc should at least look at prior examples but i feel there could be more done? there are still 7 more out there and i feel it's just the first wave in the next years to come. |
#45
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
You make a few good points....here are a few others... |
#46
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
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#47
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: davidcycleback
You can date many types of ink, with pen ink the easiest. On a related note, I'm in the process of starting a small company that does scientific light analysis of materials for the purpose of identifying, dating and analyzing materials like plastics, paints, etc. |
#48
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: leon
Good point. Toy Town stamps have never commanded much of a premium anyway. If there is ANYONE that wants to unload all of their Old Puts and E94 overprints (that I would feel comfortable with, which is all that I have seen except the ones mentioned in this thread) I am an immediate buyer. I love collecting cards with overprints. My E97 with a Toy Town stamp was $20....I will buy more of those too...at the same price of course .... |
#49
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: quan
david, good to hear ur opinion. |
#50
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MRholdings on our BST ....Caveat Emptor!!
Posted By: robert a
"It is my understanding that no one has seen that particular version whether fake or real, so how can some one make a fake that just so happens to match the exact same font that is on the ad." |
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