Banning people....one more down.....Jay B.

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Posted By: leon

You might start by asking your brother about what we emailed about this evening and all of the issues with REA. He even agreed on some of them. Get back to me on that one....BTW, I might get held to a higher standard but I am still no different than anyone else. I am glad you agree with me about banning your brother. You are a wise man....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Eric, I don't hold anything personally against you and I sometimes felt the same way about Joe P. and I sure didn't like the way he treated Barry, but he really got away with a lot and I was just testing Leon with your quote. Joe P and I got into some real good squabbles that almost always went to email. It seems to me that the banishments and what it takes to get banished here are not meted out evenly. I didn't even know that Joe P got banned from here...I sure didn't see Leon start a thread over that event like he did with Jay, but maybe I missed it. I think their are two others on this board who should not be posting here. It's not my call, but I still think I should be allowed to question it. I just won't keep pushing it as hard as Jay did and I've had my say and that's that.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Just for the record why does all the REA stuff have to be off the board, behind the scenes? Why isn't someone stepping up to the plate here and making it an issue?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Your REA comment is a deflection from the 2 comments I have made about REA and did not address either of them, you just asked another question to deflect from my initial comments.

Yes, you do have your own opinions and you should but in the end you have the final word here no matter what you say about it as a community as a whole.

Lee

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Posted By: whitehse

Well I rarely post here and I certainly am not intimidated by any of the regulars. I lurk everyday and have for at least the last 4 years, even though I think I registered 2 years ago. I come here to escape a rough day at work, I come to escape boredom, I come to escape the pressure of the world....heck I come here to just learn about cards I will never own short of them falling from my ceiling! I come here to see how the shows this past weekend were. I come to learn about a new find in pre war cards. I come to see photos posted by many collectors I have never seen before.

Whats the point of all this you might be asking???? I come here to learn about my hobby that I enjoy to escape the everyday grind. I enjoy reading about cards and hearing others stories. But (and excuse me for swearing) dammit,this crap is getting old guys! It really is. Leon, who cares how much you make.....I enjoy reading the threads and I really hope you sell more banners. Its not like they are really noticeable anyway, since they are not pop up type ads. Anyone else..... you dont like how its run..leave and start your own board and stay there! Geez who really cares, its cardboard and supposed to be fun!! or did everyone forget that!?

I am done...move along... nothing to see here!

Lets get back to collecting and talking about it

edited to add my email address
ajw111@hotmail.com

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I'm here cowering Gil, so as soon as you can undo those pesky straps on your jacket you should come look me up. Be pleased to fix you right up.

Oh, and I was under the impression JayB could read all he wanted - simply not post....I'd be disappointed if he was unable to read of others, not merely my own, opinion of his person.



Daniel


Edited for an extra thought.

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Lee, apparently people are finding your board OK without the link. 5 new members tonight, thats great, seriously. I signed up myself this morning. Why should Leon let you put a link to your site? Would you guys put up a link to his site? I doubt it. If people want to see your site, they'll find it.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

Jeff,

If you think the life of a vintage cardboard chatboard moderator is glitzy, think about what it would be like if Leon gave all that up to become a rock star. Unlike vintage baseball card chatroom moderators, rock stars aren't held to a higher standard. In fact, they're expected to do things that piss people off. Think of THOSE perks -- roadies, women, fans, women, kowtowers, women, ass kissers, women, hundreds of thousands of hero worshippers, women . . . and money -- maybe even more than $30K a year. I know Leon could do it if he wanted to. That's where its at.

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Posted By: leonl

Jay can read everything on this board even though he's banned. He mentioned several things this evening about your post.....

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

And what about REA? I don't want to bust your chops Leon but don't skirt around the questions. If you don't want to talk about say no comment don't skirt around it.

Lee

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Very commendable Leon, on putting up the link. I now that you follow the board and know that most everyone there frequents both boards.

Lee

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Posted By: leonl

My feeling about the last REA auction was 1. The 1914 Baltimore photo was a farce....total absurdity. It was photo that Rob got PSA to slab and he called a card. Period. Any knowledgable photo, or card, collector will agree.

2.The George Wright bat could have been his...or mine...it was that much of a probability, from my understanding. The other thing happened a long, long time ago and I don't want to bring it up.

Is it better to erase a pencil mark on a card or call a photograph a card, in order to get more money?...Chew on the photo a little while and get back to me....

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Now list all the transgressions of Mastro that have been listed on the board. As I stated the board feels they are the most reputable, I think you can find faults with all of them (even Barry's, I think ).

Lee

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Posted By: leonl

This is my last post. You asked about REA and I told you my thoughts. Now you bring up Mastro. YOU asked about REA. I told you honestly. Can you answer my question? This isn't about Mastro this time. They get beat up everyday. Or do you want to be like your brother and only know 1 trick? Answer the questions......

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

Lee, HE PUT UP A LINK TO YOUR GUYS SITE. He answered your question about REA. Geez, give him a little room to breath. Now you want more...more...more... You guys are relentless.

Leon beat me to it.

Take a breather folks!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Just to let you know I was writing the response when he put up the link and didn't notice. As far as your question Leon, I don't understand what you are asking. If I can figure out your question I will gladly answer.

If I had only one trick I would be more boring than I already am.

Lee

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Posted By: leonl

One question about the last REA auction. I will keep it simple.

How do you feel about what Rob did with getting the 1914 Ruth Baltimore photograph slabbed as a card by PSA? Everyone and their brother knows it was a photograph. It was laughable.

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Posted By: peter chao

This is getting out of hand...looks like we're going into "trainwreck" mode.

Peter C.

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Posted By: leonl

It's no more out of hand than normal, is it?

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Posted By: Dave F

Peter, either get on the train or get off the tracks.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Leon, I have no knowledge of the card/photo so can't say anything about that case. But, if it is a photo it is more proof why not to use PSA and that is a strike against Rob. Is this Rob's version of the Wagner PSA 8 card?

Lee

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Posted By: peter chao

Dave,

I'd like to have a few more alternatives.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Two points....

First, to answer your question, in the context of a private chatboard such as this the moderator sure can legitimately stop someone from saying things that are unpopular if the moderator reasonably believes that the exercise by that person of his free speech rights would have the chilling effect of preventing or limiting the participation by others on this Board. The moderator's first responsibility is to take actions to safeguard the viability of this Board, and sometimes doing that may legitimately take precedence over the right of a person to say what he wants on that Board. Leon is not having Jay incarcerated, nor is Leon telling Jay he can't take a protest sign and organize a march protesting the corrupting nature of banner ads. All Leon is doing is saying that Jay can't do it on this Board.

Second, I was responding to the criteria that Todd enunciated as being grounds for banning someone. One of those criteria was repeating the comments after a warning. Another was that they be particularly serious. Those were Todd's criteria, not mine, and I merely opined that I felt Jay's posts met them.

EDITED for grammar

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I found a link about the card/photo in question:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1161354862/New+1914+Babe+Ruth+Card+Discovered

Lee

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have started a new post about the REA/Baltimore "Card" and I think all further posts about that topic should be under that thread.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Cory, I don't think anyone wants a CU type situation where if you write something bad about PSA it gets erased and you will probably get banned. Then it becomes a one sided board. If you like to keep a narrow mind go for it, but I don't think that is what Net 54 is about.

Lee

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Not sure what a CU situation is. But to the extent that the gist of your post is that this Board should not become what I've heard PSA's is -- negative posts about PSA are deleted and the perpetrator banned -- I agree. As I interpret what Leon did, he banned Jay because the persistent negativity of his posts were impacting others participation on and enjoyment of this Board. I feel Leon's action would have been no different if it were someone other than Leon who was being hammered, which I don't think can be said about PSA's motives/actions.

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Posted By: JK

E Daniel - you stated:

"I will state with absoluteness no one, would have taken the number of shots Leon has from this guy - and just lived with it because this is America and people can say whatever they want."

I can assure you that there are people on this board, posting in this very thread, who dont happen to be the moderator and have taken many more shots on a day to day basis than Leon has from Jay. Peter - care to comment? Consistency of treatment? I think not.

Again, some of the shots taken by people on this board are well deserved, some are not. In Leon's case, he does accept money from advertisers. I have no problem with that. However, as a result of that decision, I believe he should either avoid commenting in any thread where it might look like a conflict or stop taking advertising dollars. Such a concept is not unheard of. Indeed, in the legal profession, judges recuse themselves from cases all the time to avoid even the appearance of a conflict - regardless of whether there is truly a conflict or not.

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Posted By: JimB

In my opinion, the unfortunate thing is that Jay could have been, and once was, a very productive contributor to this board. He is quite knowledgable about a number of vintage issues. But he chose not to be. Rather, it seems he chose to be a sort of antagonist and cancer on this board at every turn. He seemed to be determined to bring it and/or Leon down. I think this mostly stems from his issue with advertisers. I am not sure if it was the fact of advertisers or just that Jay was envious that he was not financially benefiting from it. I remember when that discussion began, he suggested that he and a few other knowledgable members should be able to share the wealth. Otherwise, why contribute to Leon's money-making machine? After he found out that he would not be financially benefitting from it, he basically stopped sharing his knowledge and became almost entirely antagonistic and confrontational. It is not that he wasn't confrotationional before ; he was. It is just that before it was in good spirit, or at least, mixed with productive contributions. I, personally, don't know how Leon tolerated it as long as he did. It seems to me that Leon has an incredible amount of patience and tolerance in moderating this board. I hope that some day Jay finds it in himself to be a productive contributor again and that he and Leon can work it out. But for now, I support Leon's decision. I think Jay's presence of late has been bringing the board down and no doubt, keeping lurkers away from contributing. I know that is the case because I have heard it from several.
JimB

edited to add a couple of commas.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good morning to all.

Just a quick comment to Lee- no, I am not a saint either. I just try to do my best. And there isn't an auction house in the country, and that includes every last one of them, that has been nominated for sainthood, best as I know. It's a business, and people do what they have to do to make a profit. Sometimes it's not pretty.

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Posted By: Chad

Man, what a thread. My only half way original thought on this is that once Jay started his own site, he should have stopped attacking Leon here. That never sat well with me as it made it seem he was just trying to bring a competitor down.

I wish the lurkers out there wouldn't refrain from posting because of the occasional fireworks--it's the same 15 or 20 of us who always end up posting in these threads. The vast majority of people in this site lurk and will jump into a thread if it's something they have expertise in. So, seriously, if you ever have a question, no matter how esoteric, post it and you'll see how constructive this place can be.

--Chad

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

kinda like a shot at the bow of the old S.S.Barry up above........

I've never seen anyone disparage Barry's auctions. He seems to have great knowledge and care about the items he auctions. And shares his knowledge here with everyone....

Kenny.....love the 'herding cats' comment.....

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Just to make it clear on my comment about Barry. It was put in there because I have never heard anything bad about him or his auctions, that is why I put the smiley behind it. I am currently contemplating whether to consign items to him. Not saying there is not problems but he seems to have a pretty good record.

Barry is a asset to this board and hobby.

Lee

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Posted By: Gil

JimB: good summary, and accurate.
I had forgotten Jay's original position on advertisers.

And Leon: thank you for the clarification. I was unaware that a banishment was solely the inability to post. Can one also make use of the b/s/t if banned? Are there different levels of exclusion at your option?

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Posted By: JinCrandell

I think Leon has made a much greater attempt to take a neutral view on controvertial issues in the hobby. I think his views are generally ones I do not agree with but nonetheless he is striving to stay neutral.

I have not read what Jay said to get him banned but he has a wealth of card knowledge and is one of the few posters that I try to read whatever he says. I hope he is allowed back.

Whoever said personal attacks of any kind should not be allowed on this board I agree wholeheartedly with and I would also be against the publishing of private e-nails here.

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Posted By: leon

My understanding is that someone can read the forum if a moderator blocks their IP address. They can not log into any place on it, B/S/T included. The other night, after I blocked Jay's IP address, he was still in the chatroom. I am not sure why nor do I care. I told him it was no biggie. I don't hate him. I do think he's hypocritical for playing the banner sponsored games AFTER he was informed that is how they were paid for. I hate how much grief he gives/gave me on the board. I also disagree with how much he contributes in a positive manner, at least for the last year, while the banners have been up. I understand that as he is the most outspoken person against them. I don't mind folks disagreeing with me at all re: the last few days. It's when it gets to such a personal nature and he questions my every move and continues the negativity, after repeated warnings, that I feel compelled to stop it. I just had enough. I hope this answers your question. regards

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Posted By: ItsOnlyGil

Well, if I understand this correctly, the term "Bannisment" is a bit of an overstatement. What my current understanding is that this level of response is more akin to a reff throwing a flag on the field, indicating a penalty. And this "offense" merits undisclosed time in the penalty box.

And of course, while in the penalty box, you can not come on to the ice. But you are not actually thrown out of the stadium either. Nor relegated to the locker room.

From time to time I self-impose a similar penalty when I find myself overly wrapped up in the soap opera. This is a valuable tool, if used as such; and not so dramatical an event as is currently associated here.

Or perhaps, I still do not understand.

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Posted By: leon

I think you pretty much nailed it. Though I do understand the "banning" (blocking of IP)is a form of punishment and I try very hard never to impose it. When it becomes overwhelming to me then I do. I guess that's the best way I can put it. I would think Jay will be back in the future, at some point, if he wants to be. Just because I don't care for someone is not a reason to be banned. I offered Joe P to come back the other day if he would stay away from 3 certain people, unless provoked. He said he couldn't do that and I said so be it. I still like him though and I think he's ok with me..........I could see he and Jay coming back in the future, again, only if they want to. regards

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Posted By: peter chao

Leon,

I got to admit that I miss Joe P., we got into some interesting discussions on this board I gotta admit.
You're doing a good on keeping our little community together.

Peter C.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- if Joe P. was sent on a rocketship to Pluto, and I lived to be 100, I still wouldn't miss him. He was a major detriment to this board.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

These pretzels are making me thirsty. <---- note double smiley face

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Posted By: barrysloate

I hear you Jeff...I could use a pretzel myself right now.

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry, Jeff, guys

"These pretzels are making me thirsty," this must be some kind of reference to Seinfeld, but I have no idea what it refers to.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

[this space intentionally left blank]

<---- note double smiley face

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- in one episode Kramer gets a small part in a Woody Allen movie and has one line: "these pretzels are making me thirsty." In the end, he gets fired from the movie for spitting milk in Woody's face and making him cry, and never gets to say the line.

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Posted By: Bob

On the day that anyone questions Barry Sloate's integrity, that's the day I lose it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Bob, but who was besmirching me? What did I miss?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I don't think Barry eats meat. Or maybe he does. Either way, he's too skinny to be trusted.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hey, we're all meeting at Morton's in a few weeks. You don't think I'm getting the egg salad?

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Posted By: MikeU

Long overdue.