A Glance At Different Sets--Percentage in High Grade

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

Every card ever graded is in the pop report.

The numbers are generally accurate and there is a very very strong correlation in any vintage or semi-vintage set between pop and price

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

It seems to make sense that if a bump in grade can yield hundreds or thousands of dollars increase in selling price, that those cards will be resubmitted multiple times. Clearly if you spend $100 on the multiple resubmittals on each of five cards and one yields a $1000 bump in selling price - you have doubled your resubmittal fee.

If you think that cards which can return significant value upon a favorable regrade, are not being resubmitted several times, I wonder why you think that.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

This statement of yours tells us you are "F-O-S", and it's not worth anyone's time to further continue any
discussion with you......

"As far as my cards are concerned, I have no concern about a downturn in values in high-end graded cards.
If there is an economic downturn, high-end graded card collectors are generally not sensitive to this. On the
other hand, I would be concerned about the values of low end beaters in such an environment."


Well, I have seen such an "environment" (economic downturn) occurring twice in the past 30 years and I recall
very well its effect on the BB card market. For you younger Net54er's....in 1980....the 1952 Topps Mantle was
selling for anywhere from $2000 to 3000. By 1982 the economy was in bad shape (due to 15% inflation and 20%
interest rates). In 1982....the same 52T Mantle was selling for $500......! !

Now, Jim has stated that the value of his Hi-end cards are impervious to such economic fluctuations....Jim, you
live in LA-LA Land.
If we a suffer just a 25% downturn in the economy, the collectibles market will invariably suffer accordingly....
history has demonstrated this at every such cycle. If you really think about it, these rectangular plastic dudes
are just another commodity. So for example, the market value of your PSA8 T or E-card that you bought for
$8000 will fall to $6000. And, accordingly every Ungraded T or E-card whose value is $100 will fall to $75.....or,
perhaps even $50.

Now, tell me everyone, I am going to be "concerned" (Jim's word) about a $25-50 de-valuation....or, am I really
going to be CONCERNED about a $2000 LOSS ? ? You do the math.

Ahhhhh......the ARROGANCE of the AFFLUENT....never ceases to amaze us....it might not affect you, but many
collectors who scrimped and saved their hard-earned $$ will be affected.

TED Z

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Posted By: Anonymous

Ted,

I wish I was younger than you but I have been collecting for 50 years.

Hard to debate with someone who predicts a 25% decline in the economy--I think a recession is if you have back to back 3% declines.

Let me teach you something Ted--graded card prices have done nothing but go up since the advent of card grading. High end cards have gone up even more. Are the people who are spending the big bucks for the psa 9 vintage cards going to alter their purchases of sports cards if there is a recession--I don't think so.The money that I spend on sportscards is indifferent to the economy. However the guy who is struggling to make ends meet and has limited discretionary income to buy sportscards is going to be affected. He is more likely to buy less expensive cards--thus you would likely see more of an impact on the lower to middle end of the market. You seems to be saying this in your example as you say high-end cards would drop 20% and low-end 25-50%. I would take 20% anyday--its the percentage change Ted, not the absolute dollars. Its like the real estate correction. Nothing wrong with the high-end houses--prices keep going up. However the lower to middle part of the housing market is suffering badly.

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Posted By: JimB

King said,
"I also wonder about the affect of GAI's half-grade on PSA 8 pops. When GAI first started business, some people crossed their PSA 8s to GAI 8.5s thinking the half-grade upgrade had value. In recent times, with GAI down in the dumpsters, those same cards may have gone back into PSA 8 holders. "

I have done this myself. I had a PSA 7 Wiltse which I thought was undergraded. WHen GAI started, I crossed it to a GAI 7.5. Earlier this year I crossed it back to PSA 7. The PSA pop report counts it twice. They count the pop of E93 WIltse in 7's as three when I know for a fact it is two since they never deleted it when I crossed to GAI and it went from 2 to 3 the day I crossed mine back. This is just one example, but I am sure it has happened a lot.
JimB

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

There is only "suffering" if you sell and do not take advantage of the low prices which abound in real estate, 1952 Mantles or whatever else is down.

That is, if your house is down in value from its peak, well so is the one you want to buy. If your card is down - so is the one you are looking for.

No suffering, no effect at all. And if you choose to keep the Mantle when it is down to $500., you may still have it. Many do. (and I believe it is up from that low).

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Gilbert,

You may suffer by losing your job or the fear of losing your job and thuis be less willing to invest in cards.

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Posted By: David R

E Daniel

As someone who crosses all his PSAs to SGC, can you tell me what percentage (roughly) cross lower, the same, or higher? I am fairly new to grading and I like the SGC holders better, but for anything I want to sell, it seems like the PSA grades are a little higher on average based on what I've submitted so far (admittedly based only on submitting about 20 cards to each so far).

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Jim, I seem to be missing your point. Are you trying to cite situations in which I would be less likely to choose to invest? If so, I will play ....

I would be less likely to invest if I was imprisoned for a crime I didn't (or even did) commit.

I would be less likely to invest if I was facing a catostrophic illness.

I would be less likely to invest if I was taken hostage for an extended period, while my wife attempted to meet their demands for payment in PSA 8 or better cards, but she couldn't come up with any because you scoffed them all up.

Now it is your turn.



Unless this is not the game which you started.

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Posted By: BcD

modern vintage needs grace . start with psa 9's and up.

question: how do you factor in all the resubmittals?

got to be hundreds of attempted and sometimes achieved upgrades as well as downgrades on psa 7-9 or SGC T-206's?

BcD

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I going to my 50th High School Reunion next week and I started collecting BB cards in 1947.

So, don't patronize me....you have an attitude that grates against many of us on this forum.
I don't know if it due to your "A" (or hyper) type personality, or whatever. And, I don't care
either....98% of the people who post on this Forum are considerate of other's opinion and
conduct some worthwhile, very interesting and thought-provoking discussions with their posts.

All you do is play a "numbers" game..you never mention a ballplayer's name..or, an in-depth
vintage set question (that may produce some intelligent responses). I'm curious....what real
pleasure do you derive by spending fortunes on these plastic commodities ?

When I set up at a Show, I place a PSA 8 labelled plastic among the cards I have displayed
for sale. And, there are some who pick this rectangular piece of plastic (with its PSA 8 label)
and ask me for a price....it's a joke, there is NO card in it.

TED Z

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Ted,

I feel sorry for you that to build yourself up you demean others.

Whatever--I don't need to know what makes you the way you are--collect what makes you happy and stop the personal attacks and things will be fine.

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Posted By: BcD

avoid this distraction and tell me how an we factor in resubmittals that effect the pop reports? How accurate really are they?



BcD

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I don't "demean others to build my self up". I have a wonderful wife who really appreciates my BB card
hobby (as I appreciate her collectible hobbies). I have two beautiful and wonderful daughters, who have
given us three beautiful grandchildren. We live on three wooded acres in a beautiful part of Pennsylvania,
where we breathe the fresh air emanating thru the tall white pines and the huge oaks.

No....I don't have to demean anyone to bolster myself up....I Thank the GOOD LORD for all the Blessings
I have received in my life.

But, take this advice my friend from someone who is older and wiser than you....try to "mellow out" in some
of your discourse when you post on the forum; and, you'll find it a friendlier place to be.

Over and out.....KALI NIKTA..(Good Night).

TED Z

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Ted,

I will give you some advice. My stance is collect what makes you happy but you have a deep hatred for graded cards and anything associated with them. I mean over the top hatred. You quickly fly off the handle when someone says something you don't like and you show no appreciation when I tried to help. You want the board to be exactly the way you want it and complain to Leon if we have a couple of posts about vintage graded cards. You should work on these things and you may find you have an overall better experience on the boards.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Ted and Jim:

I'll offer you both some advice.

I'm younger than both of you. I haven't been collecting as long as either of you. I've had disagreements online with both of you, and at this point I think I get along very well with you both. Alas, I have no piece of information like relative age or knowledge or hobby experience or anything else that would give me the credibility that I need to give unsolicited advice.

But I'm going to give it anyway.

Stop arguing about this! Both of you, together, have more knowledge about the hobby than you do individually. There are areas of the hobby that you both know a lot about, and there are areas of the hobby that you don't. Together, though, you definitely have more info. So instead of trying to out-indifferent one another with invective about how unimportant you consider the other's niche of the hobby, why not learn from each other? You're both good guys, very intelligent, with dynamite collections.

All the drama is exhausting. The hobby is much more fun when you do it with buddies than when you do it alone.

-Al

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm with Al on this one. You two guys need to call a truce.

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Posted By: leon

I will go with Al on this one. Collect what you want too. If it's a vintage (pre-wwII) baseball card it should be on this side. As I look at the list that Jim started this thread with all I see that is not pre-war is '52 Topps....which has been discussed many times here. The other several sets he mentioned were all pre-wwII. Everyone needs to collect and be happy and not necessarily try to persuade anyone into thinking any type of collecting is better than another. I just scrolled down this whole front page and I didn't see 1, that's right not even 1, thread that is post wwII. There are some other ones that aren't exactly about our gems but they aren't 50's-90's Topps questions, or Bowman, or 50's regionals questions. That's because everyone knows that stuff, for the most part, goes on the other Net54 Post War board. Al makes very good points. Thanks sir. Btw, I think this forum is ran very consistently and fairly and don't see any changes needed at this point. I am always open for debate and/or constructive criticism... ...best regards

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Al,

Read the post--King and I tried to help the guy understand--I am just responding--other than that couldn't agree more--with you and Leon. You are dead on.

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Posted By: cmoking

Jim, you'll notice that I'm not involved in a pissing match with Ted as you are. It is possible to inform or give one's opinion without all the mess.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

It seems I've had pretty fair luck at having grades match up, if you take into account the griping about PSA you hear alot of on the board.

Out of approx. 40 cards that have crossed over from PSA, one went from a PSA7 (59' Gibson) to an SGC50 - had a wrinkle, one PSA6 that became an SGC5.5 (66' Panini Ali), and a PSA2 E98 Mack that became an SGC20. So, three went down - only one significantly and I couldn't have agreed more.

On the way up - only two. A PSA4 50' Bowman Jackie Robinson that sits now in an SGC60 holder (much more appropriate as I guessed this might even have a chance at a 70)and a PSA7 Namath IA that went to an SGC86.

One GAI card that was a 5 and is now an SGC60 - N29 tennis player...forget his name right now.

Around 35 PSA cards crossed exactly into SGC holders.
Only 1 changed significantly, 5 very close.
None rejected for alterations or other.



Daniel

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Posted By: JimCrandell

King,

Exactly because I am on here talking about graded cards which drives the guy so crazy he cannot see straight.