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#101
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Cat
Legitimately, the consignor had no reason to disclose once this auction was live. He states he e-mailed Mile High on the 23rd and contacted legal counsel on the 27th so as to help in the cards return. His focus changed from selling the card to getting it pulled from the auction and getting it returned (no need for disclosure at that point). |
#102
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jim Clarke
My, bad from the post above. I missed Roger's response on this issue and, I think he has a legit gripe. (it's only 3:00am) I think I reconize that Anni Summerville card as well |
#103
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Millerhouse
Am I the only person amused to learn that the last name of the consignor is "Alter?" |
#104
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: jay behrens
JC, that's exactly what I am wondering too. Just what will it take for Leon to finally ban an advertiser? I'm not saying that is what should be done to MIle High, but personally I would given this situation and what Verkman brought posted. |
#105
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Hal Lewis
can someone post a link to the thread where Verkman says something? |
#106
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
Whew, I went to bed early last night. Did I miss anything? |
#107
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: leon
Please don't post anymore in this thread unless it's on topic. You, my idiot friend, have 2 and a half strikes. Everything Roger posted in the email has been categorically denied by Brian, on the phone, inlcuding the way the email reads. You need to call Brian if you want to get more answers. Email me pesonally if you want to discuss anything else. thanks |
#108
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: John S
In a hobby where alterations are severely frowned upon, why would an individual go to such great lengths to change the appearance of a card? |
#109
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JimCrandell
Anybody still want to debate why the hobby needs a code of ethics? |
#110
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Well the 75 different threads you started about the topic didn't convince any of us, but I'm sure we're all swayed after your last post with your generous debate offer. Certainly you deserve to feel as proud as you sound. |
#111
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: E, Daniel
is that once slabbed, the card would only be labelled as Authentic, not Restored. |
#112
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Josh Adams
It appears as though the auction house tried to pull a fast one, but got called out by the consignor? |
#113
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jay
Unlike Jay B., the more I think about it the more I like seeing the Mile High ad up on the board. It will always serve to remind me of this incident. |
#114
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Steve M.
If this post and similar posts in the past do nothing more than make the Auction houses be more careful with consignments we (Net 54) have done a great service to our hobby. |
#115
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
It seems at this point that you have two parties with two conflicting stories. Why not let some dust settle before impugning the integrity of either party? As for a "code of ethics," I have to agree with Ryan on this. No way can anything such as this can ever be enforced. |
#116
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Dan Koteles
if you are speaking about the card referenced here, there is no way you could slab this or any other fused card. A card of this magnitude AND the fact that it wasnt holdered should had set off EXTREME warning signs. The auction houses need to back to the direction it had aimed for.....others are definetely gaining or have passed them fully on issues concerning collectors.These sit- uations should go as well for dealers passing on crap ,knowing that the card has a huge problem, but....anything for the buck .Just rememeber w/o a collector or customer....YOU DO NOT MAKE A DIME. Grading is still another issue,you can see slabbed |
#117
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Jay Miller, |
#118
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jay
Greg--Restoration that was done by Mastro auctions, without my consent, if you read the whole thread. BTW, what does spamming a consignment mean? |
#119
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: E, Daniel
Forgive me if I don't totally rely on the grading companies to act as we would expect . |
#120
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JimCrandell
Ryan, |
#121
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: warshawlaw
I don't see anything wrong with the disclosure in the original auction listing in the catalog I received (OK, forget grammar; I'm making a point here). It says in pertinent part: "It must be noted that the card has been professionally restored, and is without question being sold as such. The restoration appears to be at the bottom of the card, and more so, on the reverse of the card, where it appears as if the restoration was done in an attempt...." I read the description and thought immediately "altered, ugh!" I just do not see the misrepresentation in this. Anyone who reads the paragraph describing the card and who understands English can plainly see it is a restored card; the paragraph says so THREE times, as quoted above. The material fact to be disclosed was that the card had been restored, and it was disclosed. Only a complete idiot would try to claim he didn't know the card was restored after reading that description. As we say in law, we protect a fool, maybe even a damned fool, but not a Goddamned fool. |
#122
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
Adam- I think the issue is the extent of the restoration. If the bottom had a very heavy crease that caused the lower half to crack, a conservator could repair that crack. That is significantly different than adding a section from a different card. Everyone, including myself, saw the word "restoration", but virtually noone who read it understood the magnitude of the repair. |
#123
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
The following bold text is an excerpt from the item description: |
#124
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: ErlandStevens
If you didn't know the truth about the card (two pieces), I think most people would be hard pressed to conclude that the card was assembled from two parts. Once you know the truth, the wording of the description does accurately describe the card. By refering to the "bottom portion" and the "rest of the card", the writer infers (my opinion) that there are two pieces. It seems to me that the writer certainly knew the true nature of the card. |
#125
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JimB
I don't see where the consigner claims he fully disclosed the alterations made to Brian. He does not even claim that the reason he was mad about the auction description had anything to do with the description of the restoration being insufficient. If, as Colt suggested, he was simply mad that it was not placed at lot #1, then where is there any fault of Brian's or MHCC? We still have seen no evidence that they knew in advance that the restoration was the mending together of two different cards. Like with Verkman's utterly unsubstantiated accusations, I will wait to hear some evidence before casting judgement. |
#126
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JimB
Equally without basis are the accusations flung at Leon. Give me a break! He is about as fair and even as one could possibly hope for in a moderator. I have no doubt that a myriad of opinions that he disagrees with get thrown around here on a daily basis, including those directed against advertisers on this site. Let's try to abstain from knee-jerk accusations. |
#127
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
All good points Jim, but lots 4-6 have been withdrawn and returned to the consignor, so I suspect no evidence is forthcoming. We are left only to postulate! |
#128
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: E, Daniel
Sounds painful Barry...should I be sitting down when I try that - postulate thing? |
#129
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jim Clarke
Just for the record.. Forget everything I said on my first post as I was half asleep and did not read every thread in this post. Most of my issues or questions were already answered earlier and 5 minutes after I realized that I could not edit my response as another poster came in after me.. JC |
#130
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Judson Hamlin
If I win the card, can I soak it? |
#131
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
At least I didn't say "pustulate" (to be covered with blisters and pustules) |
#132
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jason L
having a trimmed and soaked Annie Summerville under him back in the day, but as we can see from all this hullabaloo, apparently nowadays, it's just wrong. |
#133
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Cobby33
Is the Code of Ethics similar to the Raiders' Commitment to Excellence? |
#134
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Just Win, Baby... |
#135
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Rhys
The two cards actually make for an interesting combo. John Ward's first wife was Helen Douvray was an actress and she was just about the most famous and desirable woman of her time. Later Ward upgraded to a younger Maxine Elliott who was also one of the most famous actresses of her day. I wonder if Ward (who was speculated to have been a womanizer and obviously had a thing for actresses) ever did have a real life "merging" with Annie Summerville? |
#136
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
And when the two parts were merged the Ward was on top and the Summerville was on the bottom (did I really say that?) |
#137
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Paul
I think Mile High may have done itself a favor by pulling lot no. 5 as well. That was the postcard picturing Walter Johnson as a minor leaguer. The description said the card was issued during Johnson's minor league playing days. I am absolutely not an expert regarding this postcard, but I had always thought there was general agreement in the hobby that this card was issued long after Johnson joined the Senators. |
#138
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: RC McKenzie
Look at ebay current auction # 200065045382 of Cora Winslaw... |
#139
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: barrysloate
That's pretty funny. We've seen baseball players misidentified, and here is a misidentified actress. But who is the real Summerville? |
#140
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Jason L
was that he needed 5 to win the batting title. |
#141
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)
Wow. How could a "professional" dealer not notice that this card is comprised of two different pieces. He obviously looked at the card long enough to determine that some restoration was done. How could he possibly come to the determination that the restoration was only to the reverse as a result of crease or small tear. |
#142
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Scott Elkins
I believe the post you posted at 2:15 was your first attempt to protect Mile High in this thread. Kudos to Barry for catching this however! |
#143
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: leon
To reiterate here is the message cut and pasted: |
#144
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JimB
Leon is as entitled to his opinion here as anybody. I don't see any evidence that he tried to squash other opinions. In fact, after talking to Brian Drent about this at the time, it sounds like his name was unjustly dragged through the mud on this one just as it was with by our favorite 1930 Goudey salesman. |
#145
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Scott Elkins
According to YOU and YOUR statements, you KNEW ABOUT THIS FOR DAYS! |
#146
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Joann
I guess I'll wade into this one before I go bury myself in studying for the rest of the evening. |
#147
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: JK
I agree with Joanne - Ive seen no evidence that opinions are being censored on this board due to advertising. I am kind of curious as to why this thread was dug up after 3+ months, however. Edited to add that I just saw the Memory Lane thread and the comments related to this thread. |
#148
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: leon
You did take it out of context in that all you brought up was my very first post about the Mile High incident. Had you brought everything up then it wouldn't have been taken out of context. So "yes" you did take it out of context in that respect. Barry and I spoke about the issue and I told him to post it. If you feel that is protecting something then you are entitled to your opinion. I repeat...I have never protected anyone, or any company, advertiser or not, nor will I..Do you really think I was protecting them by telling Barry he was free to post the incident? ..take care |
#149
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: Scott Elkins
I posted one of your comments from after 8:00PM. The comment you made about KNOWING about this for four or five days! This was a biggie to me. I know if I was bidding on the item and something was not as described, I would want someone to come public the FIRST day they KNEW something. |
#150
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Problem with John Ward Four Base Hits
Posted By: David Davis
Seems to me if you are running your own board, you are still entitled to an opinion. What I do not understand why if Scott and Jay, et al, have "their" own board, why they keep coming back to this one? Do you really feel the need to bash Mastro about an error on both boards, or to try and nail Leon to the wall because you don't agree with advertisters? It seems there is vehement disagreement on this issue; just let it go. |
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