|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Anonymous
Perhaps someone was fooling around who had printing knowledge that made one many years ago for fun, or whatever, and it ended up in someones collection, who knows? Its not even the point. Point is that its not deemed authentic by a reputable grading company therefore it meets Verkmans standards stated on his website for a return. End of story, period. If it is real he wouldnt have disputed it, as he couldve resold it. Perhaps realizing the card is a counterfeit he's doing all he can so the buyer takes the loss and not himself. |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Steve M.
|
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Chad
Just crazy. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: PC
Not sure what SV thinks paper testing will prove -- as others have already pointed out, even if the paper is old, it doesn't mean the card is real. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Steve M.
|
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Josh Adams
I'm surprised this thread has gone this long. |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Corey R. Shanus
Scientific testing by itself CANNOT establish the card is real, period. Even if the testing shows the composition of the paper and ink is consistent with a 1930 manufacture, that same result can be produced by a counterfeiter making the card yesterday and using substances known to be available in 1930. So Mr. Verkman CANNOT win his case by scientific testing alone. Therefore, even if the testing does not prove the card is not authentic, absent some corroborating evidence establishing a 1930 manufacture (e.g., a period newspaper ad illustrating the card), the buyer can still credibly argue (via the expressed opinions of hobby experts, grading services and auction houses) that the card is not genuine. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
The buyer is hoping the court of public opinion will persuade Mr. Verkman to do the right thing before the buyer has to spend money on an attorney or commit to some contingent fee arrangement. There is no rush to bring suit. |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Steve
Wow - an honest dispute about authenticity can really bring up some emotions. Allow me to make a few points please: |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: barrysloate
Steve- do you think it is possible that you and the buyer will be able to resolve this between yourselves, or do you think it would be best to use the services of an outside third party? It does appear that the two of you can not do it alone. |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Mike
Steve; I bid on high end items on behalf of a big collector and have scratched your auction house off my list. I'm not sure how many other customers you have lost but why not just give the guy his dough back, authenticate it and re sell it? |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
"(1) This is a unique situation and we all know grading services can change their mind; (2) This part of our web site did not exist when this card was auctioned; (3) Mr Haverkos bid by phone and not on the internet; (4) We are willing to accept a return but we want to know the actual age of the card first." |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Sean BH
I would think that it would be in the best interest for Steve to return the money, get the card back and have it tested. If it turns out to be "authentic" I would think the card would sell for a lot more. |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Jay
I have been trying to stay away but let me make a few points: |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: PC
Paper testing is a red-herring. It might prove that the paper is not old (and thus, without a dobut, that the card is fake), but what if it demonstrates that the paper used was old? Will a refund NOT be given at that point? |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: JK
Mark- Demeter1 |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Sorry I was responding to Josh Adams, not you. |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: JK
"All I am after is indisputable truth and if that is not possible, I will issue a complete refund." |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Joe D.
I think it is worse that Steve is saying that the guarantee is more current than the sale of the item.... yet he will not abide by the guarantee. |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: leon
If it's proven real, being that I was the underbidder twice, I will buy the card for $19,000..... |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
I gotta disagree with ya there, if the buyer bought this card at a time Mr. Verkman was not promising a return guaranty, then the buyer is not entitled to it simply because Mr. Verkman later enlarged his guaranty. I read somewhere there is a way to get a picture of websites as of earlier dates, does anyone know? |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Jason L
There is a family-run grocery store near where I live, that has a sign out front that says: |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Joe D.
my comment (as titled) was from a customer's perspective. Not so much from a legal perspective (which I defer to people more learned than I am). |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Steve
I am absolutely willing as Barry and others have suggested to have a COMPLETELY independent third-party perform a test. Again, to talk about red herrings, we all know the games with paper and ink. This is clearly something that was printed; people that use period ink tend to sign autographs and not print cards and I want to make every best effort and then some to resolve this definitively and AGAIN, if tests are inconclusive, the winning bidder gets an immediate refund. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Dan Lundrigan
I have a question for Leon since he was one of the underbidders on this card "or anyone else for that matter".The question I have was brought up by others earlier in this thread but it seems like the question was lost in the shuffle. Is it common practice for the auctioneer to be disclosing bid information about other biddders on an item during an ongoing auction?This seems to me a little bit unethical and does even more damage to the credibility of the auction house in my opinion. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Joe D.
I would like to add... because I have not said it already: |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Alan
|
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Eric B
So is this an official change to the policy that returns can be made only after paper and ink tests are performed? Will there be a reimbursement for these testing procedures? |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Mike
Internet Archive: |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: leon
To answer your question about an auctioneer telling anything about other bids, it shouldn't be done, there should never be that situation. With that being said, and I will not name names, it is not extraordinary to be told something to garner another bid. Again, it shouldn't be done....but it is.....I have first hand knowledge of it being done, and it was not in any CSA auction.....I have no idea about this card, and this issue, in that auction....I am just answering the question you asked..I also know several good friends that have had the same experiences as I......best regards |
#81
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Joe D.
if so - that is contrary to what was said here (maybe an honest error - but pretty bad). |
#82
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
"This page, with this word for word guarantee, has been published on the csauctions.com website since at least March of 2005. |
#83
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Dan Lundrigan
Thanks for the respose Leon I read something in a previous post that made me comment but I just didn`t have the STRENGTH to go back and re-read every comment.I tried to state my question as best I remembered reading it.I would also agree with the post from Joe D. Though I do not personally know them, Mr. Verkman and Mr. Haverkos do seem like a gentlemen in a tough situation.Hope this works out for all involved. |
#84
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Brian
Refund the money. |
#85
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: jay
None of these individuals PSA, Mastro, SGC, GAI, Fogel are not Superman. They do not have x-ray vision to say that the actual orientation of the card is not authentic. Because they handle many expensive pieces (that has no relevance to this case). They never handled this piece which is the primary topic since it is a one of a kind card. It's merely an opinion what they are saying, not a fact because there is no proof. I am surprised at Mastro's statement-his last sentence. |
#86
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Brian
Double negatives are troublesome. |
#87
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
No they're not. |
#88
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Brian
Al, you're grumpy as of late. |
#89
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
I've heard that. I'll try harder. |
#90
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Steve M.
Nikdo nic nevyhrál. |
#91
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: JimB
What is most shocking to me is that Steve Verkman is still holding on and still thinks he can prevail on this one! How can he recognize a fake card if he can't recognize when he lost the battle and the war? (rhetorical question). How does someone with such low business intuition stay in business as long as he has? |
#92
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Joann
Steve, |
#93
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: davidcycleback
The return guarantee is clear. PSA, Mastro, etc are reputable experts. Yes, PSA, Mastro, Lifson and Josh Evans have been wrong individually (as we all have), but it's unlikely they would all wrong simultaneously. Mastro, REA and Lelands are competing companies, and aren't in collusion. If one of those experts offered different opinion there would be debate, but they are in agreement. If Steve accepts return and after various tests the card is proven to be vintage, he can resell it. |
#94
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
real, fake, old, new... whatever. |
#95
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: JK
Jay (JASONn11) - |
#96
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Brian
... |
#97
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
I think at this point Stevie should get familiar with the phrase "Would you like fries with that, sir?" |
#98
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Jeff, |
#99
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: mark
Wow...seeing the activity on this board the past couple of days, if I ever go into business selling vintage cards I'll be extra sure to keep on the good side of you guys!!! |
#100
|
|||
|
|||
Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
Posted By: leon
Guys- We have said all we need to. I am not protecting anyone...I promise...but unless there is something we already don't know do we really need to continue the bashing? Steve is contacting a paper conservator now...I have spoken with Steve a few times today. It is being worked on now.....Lets give these guys a chance to work it out and chill out for a day or two.....we've all said enough.... |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
High marks for PSA & Joe Orlando | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 17 | 08-02-2007 06:38 PM |
More of the Marshall Fogel collection...a little O/T but.... | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 26 | 04-16-2006 07:17 PM |
A Message from Marshall Fogel | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 4 | 02-23-2006 07:06 AM |
'48 Leaf from Marshall Fogel | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 2 | 02-20-2006 11:33 AM |
The Marshall Fogel Collection | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 21 | 12-23-2005 03:28 PM |