Set Registry

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Posted By: Steve M.

because these certainly should fit in.
P.S. I love the item description

http://cgi.ebay.com/WOW-Nice-Set-Of-old-Piedmont-Cig-Baseball-Cards_W0QQitemZ8795409432QQcategoryZ86841QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

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Posted By: Mark

What king of response would you expect to get from a question like that? I get the sense you can't afford higher-grade cards. If I'm not mistaken, you collect lower-grade cards.

How about reversing your question to: For those of you who buy low-grade cards, why do you do it and why do you spend good money in doing it (buying low-grade cards in my mind is a waste of money as they are low-grade and not worth much (color pictures from the Internet would suffice and they're FREE!!!!) but if you want to spend your money, by all means.

I don't know that there are enough people if any other than the other bidders that actualy care or really know that it is an achievement of any kind to collect low-grade cards. Heck I would be surprised if any in competion even know each other, other than by name.

Just curious why you waste your money on low-grade cards, everyone has the right to spend their money however they feel.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Lee's dispproval notwithstanding, I think his question is a good one and deserves an answer. I think this thread has been hijacked to some degree back to the Slab v. Non-Slab War. For some background, I collect both high grade vintage Registry sets (I've got a few in the top 5 and 10) as well as some highly graded vintage cards of players that I love. Many times I wonder why I bother spending a lot of money on some expensive, high graded common or even a star that is not one of my favorites when I could be spending the cash on really special cards. For example, spending $1500 a piece on four highly graded 1933 Goudey HOFers in PSA 8 when I could be spending that 6K on a T205 Matty in PSA 7 - a card I consider to be one of my alltime favorites. Psychologically speaking, I think the reason I try to complete the Registry sets I've started is due to the same collecting habits I had as a kid. Back in 1972 when I started collecting in earnest, Topps was the only game in town and I tried like hell to get every card in each set. Same thing every year until 78 when I discovered Renata Galasso and ordered the whole set at once. Now as an adult, with more disposable income than I should have and the inversely proportional level of intelligence, I find myself buying high graded card after slabbed card of players in sets I only dreamed of as a kid; sets of cards I used to just want one of, i.e., 33 Goudey, T206, 54, 55, 58 Topps, etc. And as a kid, once I start a set, psychologically I want to finish them all off and have the entire set, the entire history of that set in one, complete place. I suppose it makes me somewhat obsessive/compulsive (and as Jim C will attest to, when you're a card or two away from completing a high graded Registry set your head feels like it will explode until you get that final piece of the puzzle into place) but that is what my collecting habit is. I still buy the highly graded versions of the players I adore (Hank Greenberg, Cobb, Matty, Hal Chase, Mantle, etc.) I just don't necessarily spend the same cash as I could if I didn't bother spending the cash needed to complete a vintage Registry set in PSA 7.5 to 8. I don't know if that sheds any light on what you were thinking, Lee, but there it is.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Al,

There are two All Time sets of PSA 7 or higher at 95%+ completion.

http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_rsets.chtml?setid=83&set_name=1909%2D11%20T206%20White%20Border

I was aware of these stats when I made my original post. My point was very simple -- let's get Jim or you to identify whatever cutoff you want for "never will there be another better set registered" and we'll see if it comes true. The higher the threshold, the more people will agree with you. The lower the threshold, the fewer people will agree with you. If you choose PSA 9 at 100% completion for E107, I would agree that no one will ever get there in any of our lifetimes. If you choose PSA 3 at 75% completion for T206, well, then... well, you get the picture.

Either way, I just want a definition -- an average grade cutoff of a defined set, including what percentage of completion is acceptable. Then we can have an honest debate about whether more are out there -- and in the event more pop up, I can come back here and say, told you so. And if not, you can continue to come back here and say that you were all-knowing.

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Posted By: matt

Whatever happened to just enjoying the cards. Buying lower grade cards is pretty easy you can get a faster return. You need to take a look at the images in the "Most Recent Pickups" threads. Maybe you can tell us who is wasting money and who is not. Pretty sure most people buy cards for fun and the love of collecting while continually upgrading. God you sound arrogant. Isn't a low grade set better than nothing. I have enclosed 6 of my 202 T205 beaters ready for grading and your judgement. For some reason I thought completing a set was just as important!

.

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Posted By: Scott T

some random thoughts...

I use SGC for my ultra low grade T206 set because (being the anal retentive nerd I am) I want all my cards to have a uniform presentation.

Grading isn't for everyone, but as long as cards don't end up in PRO holders, to each their own.

I am currently 8th on the SGC registry (90% completion...average grade 24.66) and there is very little chance of me ever moving up the ladder.

I keep going back to the (papaphrased) line from "Full Metal Jacket"...

"This is my collection. There are many like it, but this one is mine!"

Scott

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I didn't miss your point, I just didn't communicate mine clearly enough through my sarcasm.

I'm with you on this. I didn't see a second set - only saw one - but my point was that if all the best sets in the world are graded and registered, well, then there are not a whole lot of "best" T206 sets. You asked Jim for a number - I glanced quickly at the registry and only saw one set. So I was kinda laughing because if there's only one high-grade set registered, then it would only take one more to refute Jim's point.

I like grading, I embrace grading, and I have registered sets. I just can't buy into the idea that ALL the best collections are graded. First, "best" is a relative term: is a collection of one low-grade T206 Wagner "better" than a collection of a complete run of 1960s baseball sets in PSA 8? I don't know the answer to that, nor do I care to speculate.

Second, there are thousands of collections out there that none of us know about, and I'm not about to draw conclusions on the merits of something I've never seen.

That's all.

-Al

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Posted By: Anonymous

I would assume that Larry Fritsch, who has been actively upgrading sets for thirty+ years may have the best of many sets. I would be shocked if his Topps stuff isn't as good as it gets.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

Actually Jim, the T3 set I mentioned is not a bunch of 6s but more like 7s and 8s. And you seem to find a pretty healthy amount of PSA graded T3s along with set builders building them in PSA slabs so I do think it is a very popular set in graded form.

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Posted By: Josh K.

t206monsta - Ive never seen you post here before, so I doubt you are anything other than a troll trying to stir the pot, but a couple of points, first, if you plan to attack someone - provide your name per board rules. Second, I doubt seriously that you actually collect vintage cards. Otherwise you would know that lower to mid-grade cards can be incredibly valuable and are appreciating as fast or faster than high grade cards.
They also sell this book called the dictionary - may want to pick one up.

As far as low grade cards are concerned, I cant imagine why anyone would waste their money on these ugly things:

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Posted By: jay behrens

Mark, got a last name? If you are going to come ont his board and be a pompous, arrogant, ass and cast aspertions at long time members of the board, you need to properly identify yourself.

I've been on both sides of the collecting spectrum, chasing high grade cards and now buying the worst of the worst. You what I find more satisfying? Buying the worst of the worst. The cards have charater. They were loved and enjoyed someone else. You know and PSA8 9 or 10 reminds me of? A sterile hospital room. Pretty look at, but in the end, it jsut leaving feeling a bit empty. These cards survived in this condition because no one cared about them and sat unloved and ignored for decades until someone found them realized they could make a buck off them. They were dug out and looked at again not because someone cared about. They wanted to see if they were something they could make some money off of.

As someone else pointed out, take a look at the BST and take a look at what most collectors on this board are buying.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

t206monsta sounds like our old friend Adam Moran from Iowa.

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Posted By: leon

If you are not well known by your Net54 handle then you do need to put your full name in the posts.....anymore posts in this thread by folks that are not well known must have their full name...

For the record I think it's very naive to think that "most" high conditioned cards are graded today.....regards

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Posted By: John J. Grillo

Josh...You simply have a great looking T227 Cobb. The best looking vintage card today imo...nothing compares to the contrast and detail in that card. As a collector of Vintage Boxing, I have the Jack Johnson and Abe Attell cards in lower (poor) grade condition, and although they look nice, the Cobb is the nicest of them all.

I do think the graded vs. ungraded agruments get old after a while. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle though. I do have a former student of mine who has a beautiful near-mint, mint to mint (8 or 9) run of late 50's and 60's football sets ungraded perfectly maintained. He never heard of PSA, and he thought Beckett was the main (and therefore the best) grading company out there.

The world doesn't revolve around the graded card industry.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Thanks John. I dont collect or currently own any boxing cards, but the one boxing card I have on my want list is a T227 Jack Johnson - very cool card.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I see where t206 Monsta is assailed for simply taking Lee's initial post nearly verbatim and turning it around to ask the question in reverse. He's then called pompous, arrogant, and casting aspersions, as well as aligned with a banished poster. When I see these types of response, I can certainly understand why lurkers and website "passersby" are reluctant to contribute to this board. And don't tell me it's because he didn't post his last name. Such is preferred and required when topics are controversial, but all he did was take essentially the exact same language and throw it back at Lee. It was pointed out in the very first response to this thread that the post could be construed as condescending. Dish it out, expect some back.

Why would someone prefer the higher grade stuff? I think it's a commonly encountered practice by those who like antiques or the old in general. Would you prefer to look at or own the dented, rusted non-working 1932 Packard that still collects cobwebs in Uncle Frank's barn or one that is shown at Barrett-Jackson? Would your wife prefer to display chipped, discolored and pitted depression glassware, no doubt loved and full of history, or a pristine set of Miss America? Wanna show off your warped, scratched and unplayable Elvis records in their torn, taped and written-on jackets or the ones that were never played and looked like they were pressed yesterday? Why can't cards be viewed the same way?

As for the registry, I don't really get off on the competition element either, but that isn't the only reason people participate. Hey, different strokes.

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Posted By: James Feagin

A classic case of apples and oranges.

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Posted By: Richard

Good point, Todd, with respect to your first paragraph.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I agree - apples and oranges. Todd - if you reread some of the early posts, cmoking pointed out how the initial queston could be construed as condescending. cmoking wasnt attacked for his comment at all. t206monsta took an entirely different approach and did turn it into a personal attack. Finally, as far as him being compared to adam j., well, if the shoe fits . . . (adam had the exact same mentality and opinion of anything that wasnt high grade).

Finally, for the record, I have no problem looking at or displaying the low grade cards posted above for anyone and everyone to see. If I had a t227 cobb graded a 7 or 8 - you can bet I'd sell it as fast as I could, buy a "low grade" 3, 4 or 5 and take my extra money to the bank.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

"t206monsta took an entirely different approach and did turn it into a personal attack"

Huh? Show me how the two posts differ, please.

And you continue to align him with Adam M., based on this one post? Who's casting aspersions now?

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Posted By: leon

Part of the forum rules are that when you get into a heated debate, intended or not, then you must put your full name if not well known by your handle. It's not that big of a deal imo. If you want to talk about cards in general you can remain unknown. If you want to debate you need to be known. It's not a crime in asking for folks to identify themselves when debating....and it's not a knock on character, or integrity, either. I agree T206 Monsta's post only turned the table around and I see no harm in doing that, for arguments sake. Many message boards are so locked down you have to pass a screening to get to participate. I think we walk the line on anonymity and let it go as much as possible...nuff said. BTW, I like my pr-fr cards as much as my nrmt ones.... regards

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I think Todd absolutely nailed this inflamatory thread.
The thread question itself takes an enormous stab at collectors of high grade material, quite disparaging in tone and effect, and equally obvious was the "monsta's" anger at the question.
He flipped it round to flip the thread-maker off, and everyone just piled on top of him for it.
Seems people might have lost track of the thread and just started reading half way down...........

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Posted By: Joann

I think that t206monsta added enough editorial comment to change the overall tone from Lee's.

Specifically, the first paragraph includes "I get the sense that you can't afford higher-grade cards. If I'm not mistaken you collect lower-grade cards." Lee's did not include anything that insulting, inflammatory, or directed at an individual.

Also:

Lee: "overpaying in my mind outrageously, but that's up to you if you have the means"
Other Guy: "buying low-grade cards in my mind is a waste of money as they are low-grade and not worth much (color pictures on the Internet would suffice and they are Free)"

Lee said that people pay more than he thinks the card is worth, but makes no judgment on that, does not degrade the cards or the buyers, and does not say it's a waste of money. OG inserts commentary about low-grades not being worth much, even comparing them to free internet scans.

Lee: "Just curious, everyone has the right to spend their money however they feel."
OG: "Just curious why you waste your money on low-grade cards, everyone has the right to spend the money however they feel."

Again, the disparagement of low-grade cards as a "waste of money".

For what I think he was trying to ask, I think Lee's question was pretty benign. I myself was curious to see the responses as well. I didn't read it as saying it was a waste of money, just that he was wondering about the thoughts and motivations of those that do it. He noted that he didn't see how it would be exposure/acclaim, whatever, and left the speculation at that.

I can see where it could be interpreted as condescending, but if someone wanted to geunuinely inquire as to the thought process I'm hard-pressed to come up with wording that couldn't be interpreted as condescending.

OG's post, OTOH, was facially aggressive and confrontational, and included digs and judgments about low end cards and the people that buy/collect them. If his were the only or first post, I would not read it in any way as a genuine question about interests.

I think that the responses directed to the original question are interesting and helpful in realizing the differences among collectors (especially Paul's comments about the venue for being competitive, which many of us are). Sorry to participate in thread hijacking, just trying to point out a different view.


Joann

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Posted By: Josh K.

After rereading monsta's post, I see now that he was attempting to mirror lee's post. however, I agree with joanne that the manner in which it was done was not apples to apples. After rereading the post, I dont think its as bad as I originally took it, but I still think in "turning the tables" it looked more much more like an attack than the original post.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I appreciate how you have parsed out some differences in the two posts, but will respectfully disagree with your assessment. I find the inital post as far from benign, and I am skeptcial that you are truly "hard-pressed" to find a better way to word an approach to the subject. Both posters' parentheticals were jabs, and I see little difference in one claiming a certain type of collector overpays outrageously while the other suggests the other collector is wasting his money. Maybe it's just semantics, and maybe monsta ratcheted it up with the reference to internet scans, but both posts are cut from the same cloth, IMO. My point is, let the fur fly, controversy is OK and often healthy, just don't squelch the voice that disagrees with yours for speaking his mind.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Josh and Joann,

When you feel someone has insulted you, it goes something like this.

"Gee, you're a bit of an idiot"

"Well, you're an idiot AND ugly, whose got the worse end of the deal?"

People don't mirror eachothers disparagements, they feel the need to one up.

Joann, if you don't see the original text as arrogant and demeaning, then its because you feel a kinship to the statements themselves.
And if you're looking for kinder wording, how's this:

'I've always wondered, what makes people feel the need to buy cards in such high grade when the financial requirements are so incredibly demanding, and perhaps the physical differences can be so slight?'

Oh, yes. I know why such wording wasn't used. Because the answer to the question is one EVERY collector knows and understands, and what the questioner really wanted to do was disparage such collecting habits.

Don't know, doesn't seem hard to me.................

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I think most of the people picked up on the question just fine but there always seems to be the English majors out there that read more into a statement then there actually is.

When I see $5000 being spent on a PSA 6 with 3 spots of obviuos paper loss on the front, I would like to know the motivation for paying that kind of money for a card in it's raw state be luckky to go for $100.

Thanks to all who responded to the original post it is insightful.

As far as low grade collecting goes, if you only have $1000 to spend do you want one card or 50 lowgrade presentable cards? My answer, 50 lowgrade cards more to enjoy.

Lee

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I could sell my set of 520 T206 cards for quite a bit of money to be able to afford 6 or 7 super-ultra-hi-grade T206 commons. But, if you ask me, that would be delusional. I'm striving for 520 T206 cards, all graded by SGC, with an average grade of 40 to 50.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

To those who would rather own low graded cards instead of PSA 8s, I have to tell you that I would prefer living in a $3 million home than one that cost$175K; I'd rather drive an 80K car than a Maxima and I'd rather have a $10K Rolex Daytona than a Timex. Oh, and all the while I'd rather send my kids to college and grad school without taking out any loans. I guess I'm just not as smart as the low grade card guys. Maybe one of these days I'll figure it all out.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

And what Lee said last is an interesting question: would you rather have 50 $20 beaters or one PSA 8 T206? Fair question and I suspect answers will be all over the map. But more importantly - would you rather own 50 beaters or 50 PSA 8s?

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Posted By: Richard

If I had $1000 to spend, I would buy one nice Cobb card and would pass on the 50 decent looking commons at $20each. But that's just me. I would stare at the Cobb card every night, but would find it hard to look at 50 off-grade no-names.

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Posted By: T206Collector

1) Would you rather own 50 beaters or 50 PSA 8s?
2) Wouldy you rather own 50 beaters that are worth the value of 1 PSA 8, or just the 1 PSA 8?

With respect to (1), I would rather own 50 PSA 8's.
With respect to (2), I would rather own the 50 beaters.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I have a lot of 20 off-grade 1938 Goudeys. I can come up with 30 more.

If someone would like to trade me a PSA 8 Joe DiMaggio for them, just let me know.

-Al

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Not sure again where you're at when you make such statements - about your reference to English Majors - seems to me that it follows much of your disdain for people you don't relate to. And not to get political, I have a feeling it will end this thread, but so much of that goes on these days in this country. As though to be literate, to care about being accurate and knowledgeable is somehow a low indicator of ethical and moral trueness.

I know I've made a stretch here, and others will disagree immensely, but its not hard to get a pretty true read of people from what they write - and however you backstep now, your words ring loud and true. Of course, you were speaking to the true-believers, your people, and I'm sure they'll have your back.

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Posted By: Steve

<<<<<< would you rather own 50 beaters or 50 PSA 8s?>>>>>>


Not directed at Mr. Lichtman, I am only using his quote.

How about owning what you like and what you can afford?

Works for me.

As for the reg. I use it as a sort of checklist and have traded and bought and sold from many a member.

Steve


Ps happy passover and easter to all.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Jeff,

Why don't you address my fact about the purchase of a PSA 6 with paper loss for $5000? That is more of the jest of this thread. This happens way to often and to me that is very a foolish purchase. As I stated earlier, everyone has the right to spend there money how they please, but decisions like this do not seem to me like very good ones.

As far as what you did address, it wasn't even in the context of the statement I made for the situation, you twisted to meet your income needs and wants not as I addressed the question. More proof to how a statement gets twisted to meet there own needs.

Most of us here are on limited budgets and spending on high grade cards is not really an option at this time. If my income was higher would branch out to collect more sets and not get high grade cards. I prefer presentable over high grade.

I also think alot of common players are very interesting, take the worst hitter of all time Bill Bergen, .170 career hitter, had a brother that was a great caatcher for the World Champion Beaneaters the ended up murdering his family with an axe. All players have stories some more publized than others. That is one reason if I had $1000 I would spend it on 50 $20 presentable cards.

Lee

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, I'd rather live small, comfortable home than a sprawling expanse of home that requires a house staff. I'd rather drive the vehicle I pulled from the junkyard for $500 than waste the moeny on a $80k vehicle that will never get me back my $80k. I'd rather wear a watch I got out of Cracker Jack box than waste $10k on a Rolex. $10k can buy you some nice cards for your collection.

For those of use that don't have six-figure incomes your lifestyle is unrealistic.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Richard

Jay -

I think that anyone that lives outside of our stupid little card world (probably 99.9% of the people out there) would think it absolutely rediculous to spend 10k on smelly cardboard rather than a Rolex

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JimB,

Fair Point--There may be a a small number of ungraded sets among 10 most popular that are among the best and ungraded.

T206,

Deal but remember it is as submitted--not after upgrades.

Dav

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well, I don't know how well known, famous or notorious I am... my name is Frank Wakefield.

I'm REALLY biased against grading. I like to be able to touch a card. The little fellows are pieces of history. So the idea of registering a set seems to me the ultimate culmination of this grading folly. But that is not why I post.

I've seen some very nice cards, in person, eyeball to cardboard, over the years. Wagners, Cracker Jack cards that look like they never went into the box in the first place, Old Judges that look like they were cut at the printers and then hidden away, beautiful cards. They were not graded. And even if I add into the population the scans of 8s and 9s and all that I've seen on eBay, in auctions, and on this board, it still seems to me that at least 90% of the really nice cards I'm aware of are ungraded.

Maybe after a fellow gets a certain number of sets registered, he himself could get graded as a PSA 6 Collector... and if he gets more sets registered, then he could reach the PSA 7 level of collecting, and from that lofty position of honor he could then aspire to become a PSA 8 Collector. They could even send the collector a nice T shirt...

Frank

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay - what if the cost of a PSA 7 T206 Cobb red background costs the proportional same amount of disposable income to a buyer as does a PSA 1 to you? Does that still make the purchase unwise? Same thing with the watch, house, car, etc.? What about the fact that T206 PSA 7s and 8s have more than doubled in value as based on ebay sales in the past two years? Still an unwise purchase?

Lee, just curious: there's a card with paper loss that graded a 6?

I think you need to appreciate what Richard wrote. We're in this little bubble spending money (sometimes lots) on cardboard. Sure it goes up in value in time but it's not exactly gold we're buying here. Some people (shudder) might think spending serious coin on baseball cards is foolish.

Regardless, I think both you and Jay need to also appreciate that when given the opportunity to own a pristine example of a vintage baseball card, nearly everyone on the planet would rather take that one than a beater. After all, the pristine example is the one that looks the same as it did when it was taken out of a wax pack or a cigarette pack at the time of purchase. It allows us to look at the card and transport ourselves back to that exact moment in time when some kid (or some baseball fan with a nicotine addiction) first gazed upon the card. While a beater may be charming, it sure as hell doesn't look it was meant to look like upon creation no matter how special to you it might be to think that some kid put it under his pillow every day for a year or crammed it into his bicycle spokes.

Jay and Lee, you guys seem to argue that money is not worth the troubles it brings. Imagine a world where having money allows you to buy all the stuff you wanted as a kid without any negative repercussions. The issues you guys raise are larger ones than just the simple question of why or why not someone would spend cash on a high graded Registry set. Regardless, I think I answered the question as to why someone would want to complete an entire graded set in my first response to this question you raised, right?

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Posted By: Richard Masson

There is no "Laffer Curve" for baseball cards- an optimal amount of wear on a card that makes it most desirable- virtually everyone wants as nice a copy as they can afford. A straight upward sloping line.
Price is the variable that makes it tricky.

Availability means something too. Many sets don't come in high grade. A PSA 7 E107 would look bizarre in a group of SGC 10s and 20s. I would have no desire to own such a thing (at what it might cost). On the other hand, there are plenty of caramels graded 4s and 5s, and T206s graded 6s and 7s. I like to collect the most commonly available "nice" grades available.

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Posted By: cmoking

"Why don't you address my fact about the purchase of a PSA 6 with paper loss for $5000? That is more of the jest of this thread. "

The 'jest of this thread' was on a PSA 6 with paper loss that went for $5K? Did anyone else know that? What did I miss?

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Posted By: Richard Masson

If someone bought a PSA 6 with paper loss, they screwed up, pure and simple.
They assumed a PSA 6 wouldn't have a flaw like that and didn't look closely at the card before they pulled the trigger.

I don't know the exact card you are referring to, but is a real (w/o paper loss)PSA 6 worth 5k?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Everyone would love to own the best, but most people are realistic and will settle for what they can afford. Sadly, our society has twisted many peoples minds to the point where they will bankrupt themselve to kepp up with Jones, becuase they believe that is what every good American should do. Our society is also highly competive, which explains the existance and competativeness of the set registry.

I used to fit both those descriptions and went thru a major life change that has put me on the other extreme of those American dreams. Personally, I'm much happier about my situation in life now than I ever was when I was making a ton of money and owned a lot of pretty things. I do give thanks for all the people that do try to live up to the American dream because it allows me to enjoy the things I do without having to go thru stress and agrivation. I also need these people to keep the American economy afloat, because if everyone started living like I do, the American economic system would collapse. I am the anti-consumer

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, we're going to have to send in a team from Vienna to examine you. Why do you think that people that spend a lot of money on cards do so to "keep up with the Joneses?" Who the hell even hangs out with anyone else on the Registry lists? You want to know why I spend what I do on cards? I do it because I WANT to and I CAN. Has nothing to do with peer pressure. Do you honestly think that people spend what they do on baseball cards because of wanting to keep up with their neighbors? I find it hilarious that the way you rationalize spending small amounts of cash on cards is that you wouldn't want to spend a lot of money because "keeping up with the Joneses" is too painful to bear. Dude, we live in America not North Korea. Believe it or not, I like working hard, being successful and spending ridiculous amounts of money on a hobby that I love. This has nothing to do with keeping up with anyone - because everyone I am close with who has cash does not buy cards. Why you feel the need to denigrate the fact that people who spend a lot of money on cards are somehow foolish - because that is exactly what you are saying. To twist Dice Clay's words a bit, how do you think people that make enough money to spend tons on cards got that way - by being dumb and lazy?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Jeff,

thanks for answering my question rationally.

As far as the T202 PSA 6 with paper loss on front for $5000, yes it does exist, It no longer is on ebay I should have copied the image. The 3 areas of paper loss were obvious and I don't know how they could be missed by the graders or the buyers.

as far as the being the jest of the question yes it is. Transactions such as this are proof that people are buying the holder and not the card just to one up someone no matter the price. I want to try and understand why in the world you would be the holder and not the card?

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Lee,

I think that in the pursuit of a completed Registry set occasionally one will buy a card that they don't particularly love just to slot it in the set. That being said, I don't think I'd spend more than a few bucks on a PSA 8 or 7 that was horribly centered or otherwise was clear didn't belong in that graded holder. To spend $30 on a PSA 6 with paper loss (I'd love to see that one by the way) is not, therefore, that big a deal in my eyes; however to spend big dollars and SMR value for a PSA 6 with paper loss is probably dopey - unless the SMR value is way too low.

Jeff

[Archive]

Posted By: Al Crisafulli

Unfortunately I went to SmartCollector and searched the Ebay history for the past 120 days, and could not see any PSA 6 T202s that sold for more than $3800, and none had paper loss that I could see, so I guess the transaction in question happened more than 4 months ago.

In any event, I see the point that you're trying to make, Lee, but I also think you're taking an exception and trying to make it the rule. There are any number of reasons why that particular card sold for as much as it did. Perhaps the person was a "cert buyer" looking to inflate their position on the registry with an overgraded card. Perhaps the person was careless and did not see the paper loss. Perhaps the buyer wanted to win the card, and set a very high snipe to ensure that they would - and someone else did the same thing, driving the price up extraordinarily high (I've had this happen to me, though never for $5K). Perhaps the buyer thought the paper loss was just a bad scan - who knows, maybe it even was.

The reality is that it's not common to see a PSA 6 with paper loss, and it's less common to see someone overpay for one. So I think this is probably a relatively isolated incident.

I see cards sell for what I think are outrageous prices almost every day. Other days, I see cards sell for much less than what I think they're worth. Sometimes they sell for just the right amount. I've been on the buying end of all three of those scenarios, as well.

Bottom line is that while some of us might view a transaction as "overpaying", the winning bidder may be completely comfortable with it. Who cares? Why is it an issue? And who's to say it has anything whatsoever to do with the registry?

-Al

(Edited to address the correct Behrens)

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, I wasn't talking about cards specifically, but the American cosumer mentality in general. If you don't think Keeping Up With Jones is part of the registry phenomana, then you are wrong. It's the same reason peole have to have bigger, better, faster, newer, no matter the object may be. It could be a house, car, watch or baseball cards. It's a deeply ingrained part of the American psyche.

If I were to win the lottery, my collecting habits would not change. I would still buy low grade cards, I'd still drive my $500 vehicle from the junkyard, etc. I'm a bad American and refuse to buy into the "be a good consumer" BS. I'd don't need the best to make myself look better or to feel better about myself. Basically, Americans are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic while it's sinking.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.