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#1
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Robert
Well it official I have been outbid on all 16 of my lots (ALL T206 and T205's). I bid what I thought was the SMR value minus 20% and 13 of the lots have already more then doubled the SMR value and in a few cases have tripled. Also I have had zero luck on EBAY lately T205,s & 6's have been going through the roof at least doubling SMR. I think you can throw out these price guides because they are way off on what things are selling. I would like to find a dealer who sells there graded cards at SMR so I can at least get something. |
#2
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Alan
I couldn't agree with you more. I thought the purpose of the Mastro "Classic" auction was to offer material that has a lower price for collectors with tight budgets and also to accept material that wasn't high end enough for their "premier" auctions. I'm not sure their idea is working, though.... |
#3
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: scott ingold
Agreed, I have been outbid on everything on ebay the past 2 weeks. Price's are nuts lately on the t206's. I do have 2 active bids still holding on with maestro though. Example : I bought a gai 7 common t206 3 weeks ago for 213.00. The other night i had bis=ds in on 2 different 7's at 259.00. Both went for well over 4 and 5 hundred. Again out of control. |
#4
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: jay behrens
Good thing I am too poor to worry about whether or not I can win a Mastro lot. I struggle to win beat up, crappy eBay cards that the MAstro crew wipes their feet on |
#5
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
I think the Classic Auction is in fact working very well for Mastronet, it's just not working too well for the bidders. I'm not sure they ever implied the purpose of the auction was to give things away below market, and the bidders have nobody to blame but themselves for the high prices. Why did the N162 set have 40 bids in the first three hours? It wasn't Mastronet's fault. People bid as if the world is coming to end and they will never have another chance to buy these vintage cards; as such, the prices keep getting higher. |
#6
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Larry
Those of you that think the SMR vintage prices are accurate are quite wrong, they have never been adjusted correctly, they are a guide and percentages show that there are much more demand for vintage than a 1986 Fleer Jordan or 1982 Rookie Ripken, 1984 Clemens, Topps Buybacks and signed "created rarities" etc.. which are way OVERPRICED..The truth is we as dealers and collectors should look at smr and beckett as a guide base, then multiply it or deduct from it...not a price list..as a dealer, a nice T, E or N card is so rare that it is frivolous to think a 1986 Jordan HIGH GRADE where they made tens on thousands of these should be "worth" more than a T206 HOFer but because SMR says it is should mean nothing... logic and demand should dictate the price, not a corporation that has really no interest in actually keeping up with reality. |
#7
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
Speaking of the SMR, it is frustrating that the section on vintage cards doesn't better reflect actual market prices. I can understand that the yearly guides can't anticipate trends over 12 months, but a monthly guide has the ability to stay on top of prices. And yet while vintage cards are skyrocketing, I get the SMR each month and 98% of the prices remain unchanged. Doesn't somebody who is in charge of compiling numbers know that E-cards, among others, often sell 3x-5x the prices that are listed? That's just showing indifference to the marketplace, so why even bother. Do others feel that the SMR could do a much better job? |
#8
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Paul Stratton
I'm with Barry on this one. They are so out of touch it is unbelievable. They raise the prices on pre-war psa 9's and psa 8's...huh...there are no 9's and very few 8's. Doesn't make much sense. They should have values on |
#9
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
Paul- That is exactly the point. Because so many of these cards trade regularly, it would be so easy for them to keep a database and update it. If certain prices skew a bit there are statistical averages they could use to come up with their adjusted monthly prices. |
#10
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: warshawlaw
I see no reason to "deal" on nice N, T and E cards right now. Realistically, if I cannot get the price I want on them, I sit back and hold them and the price I wanted becomes a low price. I see it over and over. Cards are being bid through the roof because there is a finite, small supply and more vintage collectors than ever. |
#11
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Darren J. Duet
if a PRICE GUIDE cannot stay on top of current prices, then that price guide should not print prices |
#12
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Larry
I see that several of you agree with me that there is an extroadinary void regarding SMR and beckett...I feel that the basic overall situation regarding pre war cards PSA 4-8 is that based on the issue, actual values are somewhere around 1.5 to 3X SMR but on issues like 1932 US Caramels, E90-1, N162's, T205 HOFers, low population singles in HIGH GRADES etc..they could be 3-5X SMR!.. |
#13
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Trying to track all sales of SGC, PSA and GAI graded vintage cards could be a full time job for someone. I couldn't imagine that anyone would do this voluntarily and I couldn't imagine the big 3 tracking this because there would be NO INCOME generated by tracking this data. |
#14
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Robert
I an a web designer of large membership based sites all income producing and have been contemplating whether or not to do a site based on baseball cards. It would be for pre-war cards only and you will be able to open a profile of a certain card say a T206 Cobb red portrait and see a compiled list of the last years sales of that card graded by one of the big three that have sold on Ebay and through the major auction house. It would give details on the grading company, grade, date, price and back type when it applies. It would be for members only that can access the information and of course there would be some other added value features. My question is this who out there would be willing to pay a monthly fee and how much shuld be charged. There is a lot of work needed to be put into the site as well as to maintain it. Your feed back will be a determining factor as to whether or not I where to persue this venture. I think it would be a valuable tool for everyone and would be accurate in the price trends unlike the SMR publications. I would also be looking for some people who would be interested in be apart of this venture by adding to the database. |
#15
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I would pay!!!!!!!!!!! |
#16
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: David Seaborn
I have silently tracked the sale of every pre-1916 card slabbed by on of the big three grading companies for three years now. This includes all eBay auctions and all major auction houses. It is close to a full time job, but it can (and is) being done. Trends can be made, even analysis of prices between grading companies for the same card. We'll be doing much more with these data in the future. Needless to say, SMR is way off on most issues. Robert - send me an email. Dave |
#17
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
I think a great number of people would pay for information from a database that more accurately reflects the market. I agree that sometimes a price for an individual card is extreme and will not reflect all future transactions. But simply reporting that card x sold for this amount at this point in time is useful and collectors can assess the information as they choose. The more cards of a similar nature transact, the closer we would come to determining what they are really worth. I would pay for such a service and I think many others would too. Of course, how much would a subscription for a year cost? I have an auction in November and would be happy to have those prices put into a database. I can already tell you even before the auction starts that some prices will be astronomical, most will be as expected, and a few will be disappointing. But it will still reflect the market at that moment in time. It's a project that is long overdue, and I think it would be very well received. |
#18
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
IF the big 3 grading services wont do this and SCD can't do this (limited resources) then a collaborative effort by many collectors would be the key. Dave said he's accumulated a lot of data of pre-1916 and mentioned that it's almost a full time job in itself. When you add in all of the Goudeys and other common issues of the 30's and early 40's then it will be a challenge and obviously something that must be done my several people. |
#19
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Richard Masson
I would be willing to pay for this data. |
#20
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: John_B_California
Why hasn't Ebay ever packaged historical prices into a price guide? |
#21
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Jim F
If I remember correctly, ebay through a third party did or still does have a site you can go to and retrieve about 6 months worth of prices for items. I remember using it in the past. It highlights the highs and lows and gives you the average price. I think you get a couple free cracks at it and then there is a monthly fee for this research. If I remember right it is in some type of service package that costs about $50? a month. As a full time dealer I would gladly pay for this type of info for vintage cards. I don't think it would be a viable business though unless you included the 50's and 60's cards (and a bit of hockey). Jim |
#22
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: honus3415
The Price Guide is a thing of the past. Try as anyone might to come up with a solution which would reflect accurate values, no solution exists. |
#23
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: leon
very well said.... |
#24
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Paul Lehr
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#25
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
A guide can never dictate the price any card will sell for, but the term "guide" suggests that the price it lists will help guide us into making a decision. In most cases however, the guide doesn't do this. If anything, the less knowledgable would be taken to the cleaners if they sold a collection for a percentage of guide. In that respect, it is both worthless and dangerous. |
#26
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: warshawlaw
Honus, I'm philosophically with you on the issue of wealthy accumulators skewing the price structure. However, I have to disagree on the issue of who the buyers are. There are a lot of guys who are market-busters not because they are unschooled accumulators grabbing anything not nailed down but because they genuinely love the hobby and pay whatever it takes to get the cards they want for their collections. As a collector you have to respect that, even if it frustrates the heck out of you as a competitor for the same cards. |
#27
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Larry
Mr. Sloate's last post is absolutely correct...A price "guide" is just that a guide, not a reprinted bunch of jibberish with some foudation of market trends..Lets face it, who came up with these arbitrary numbers to begin with, was this a PSA research effort? |
#28
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Robert, |
#29
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Scott Forrest
I keep waiting for cards to start heading down again, but it's been a while. Not giving up, but I can't afford to participate fully in this hobby at the current prices. |
#30
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
Scott- I think there's a chance some of the hotter sets will cool and level off, but waiting for a downturn in vintage cards may not be that realistic. Maybe a tiny drop here and there, but the demand seems insatiable. I think the only hope is that so many collectors decide to sell due to the current high levels that the market becomes saturated. But for every person who drops out of the hobby, two richer ones come in. It's a daunting situation for collectors who work within a budget. |
#31
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: david
i have been collecting n and t issues for almost twenty years and while the prices i have paid always seem high or above book the prices never dip or go down and i see no reason for that trend not to continue. |
#32
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: warshawlaw
is if we have a truly horrendous worldwide event, like a virulent strain of bird flu going pandemic or a full blown oil embargo, that results in a major depression in the industrialized countries, which will crater everything except guns and gold. Even then, I would expect that like any other human commodity, prices on cards will rebound after the event winds down. Barring a cataclysm, I think we are likely to see prices steady, perhaps retract a bit at worst. I see no macro-economic reason to sell off rare old cards right now. |
#33
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: barrysloate
Please, no catalclysms, at least not until my auction is over. Then it's O.K. |
#34
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: William Brumbach
Should I start including guns and gold as payment options for my future eBay auctions? Especially now that eBay will no longer be allowing sellers to explicitly request cash as a payment option? |
#35
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Mastronet Auction
Posted By: Larry
If it gets down to gold and guns, I rather have my T206 Cobbs and pray. |
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