Cobb vs. Wagner

[Archive]

Posted By: identify7

Well Ted, I respect your opinion on Mantle, even if mine differs. I intend no slight on Mantle attributable to the competence of Berra. Similarly irrelevant are the pressures experienced by black athletes in other sports.

That point was directed toward the pressures Mantle faced as the new Yankee hero following Joe D., and how that pressure, in baseball, compared to the pressures in baseball experienced by his black peers, at that time.

Additionally irrelevant to my post in this thread are the observations I shared on a different subject in a different thread! These comments related to facts which I researched applicable to Babe Ruth and Lefty O'Doul. Specifically in that thread, I speculated about Ruth's issuance of more walks than strikeouts during the two years preceeding his trade to the Yankees, and his general continuance of this issuance of more walks than strikeouts after joining the Yanks. Ted, realistically you can not think that I did not research that obscure observation. I threw it out to evoke comment realizing that the speculation of a causative factor in Ruth's transition to a position player was extremely weak. And I got the comment which was deserved.

And Ted, if I put Mantle down for having a WS .257 average, maybe he deserves it. It is not I who stated: "And, especially effective during World Series play as his numbers testify:" with regard to Mantle's performance.

Whether there is a difference between a .300 hitter and one who does not make the grade, between a 500+ HR club member and one who falls short, or a pitcher who gets 300 wins or almost does, is as important as each fan makes it.

I think the truth of the matter on this subject Ted, is you grew up as a Yankee fan and I did exactly the opposite. I believe that both of our views are a little clouded. I know that it amazes me that you can look at the statistics, recall the play and still think that Mantle is in the league with one of the all time greats.

Look at the line ups that our fellow board members have selected for their all time teams, Ted. How many chose Mantle; how many chose Mays? Look at mine. I chose Williams.

It has been an interesting debate Ted, thank you. You can have the last post if you want it.

Comments regarding nit-picking, profession identification and how many ballgames I attended as a youth, will go unanswered unless you can justify their relevance.

Edited to add: Yes AP13, Mantle certainly was fast. And I heard it said that Mays wore hats too big for him, simply to dramatize his running ability (by having the hat fly off). It is too bad that Mantle's legs did not stay healthy. But he certainly was still a heck of a ballplayer - and a man for enduring the daily treatments just so he could go out and play. This doesn't sound like someone who would choke in the clutch. Ya never know.