SGC over graded this one.

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Posted By: dan mckee

If I submit this, it comes back a 2 with that destroyed top right corner.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794621880&category=31721

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Posted By: BOTN

Dan,

I do not know David and I am not sure that he and I have done business but I do see a lot of liberal grading in the SGC items that he sells.

I have no idea if these are recent grades, if they are his cards or consignments but I do agree with your statement.

Hate to be critical of SGC but cannot argue with the facts. If I submitted that I would hope that I would not get anything better than a 2.5 or 3.

Greg

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Posted By: runscott

But I noticed the same thing, looking through his current auctions of SGC-graded cards.

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Posted By: JC

Hello dan, that was my card before I consigned it in the last Mastro Auction. I do not want to get into a stink with grading companies but I had it graded from a major company and it came back 3 grades lower... I thought it looked better outside of the holder. I have seen other cards of mine grade higher the second time around as well. I'm not in the game to keep submitting stuff until I get what I'm looking for. I know people make tons of money doing that... Sooner or later inconsistant grading companies will be out of business and there will only be one maybe two to deal with. Right now it's still a race to get the market share...

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Posted By: jay behrens

This my favortie overgrade from SGC. Missing the right boarder and round corners.

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Posted By: 823dek

Wow ! ....hmmm.....ugh......guess that's one for the gipper!

I sent in 20 of my best tobbaco and caramels, funny that 11+ came back 84's w/ none higher, are you telling me that 11 0r 12 cards grading 84 are all alike , corner ,edge ,centering...etc?

My Bender, Guiheen and Evers portraits should have been easily over 88's as they smoked the rest. Had a Tinker portrait that came back less than 84 that was much nicer than Mastro's psa 8 w/print dots in the background. So, this was easy enough for me to be assured that like in anything else, it is who you know!

I think that it is possible some guys may be informed of certain cards that have been recently graded of their possibility of being marketed . In turn ,they can be bought and resubmitted for a higher grade and get that person much more money.

This could be idle garble, but...explain the exact findings in which my best were all 84's!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Dek, That is a strange response. you submit 20 cards and "11+ come back 84's none higher" what does that mean 11+? What were the grades of the other 9- cards that were your blazers? Were they graded proberly because you missed something in the condition?

I am sorry but if any of us can tell the actual diiference between a 84, 86, 88, or a 92 they are really fooling themselves. I think we all have can we think are flawless but someone else can find a flaw in the card. We that submit cards generally do it for 2 reasons, holder the card (grade isn't that significant) or for resell and we hope get as high a grade as possible to maximize the resale.
Maybe what we need is a graading company that we can send our submission and tell them the minimum grade we want if they won't give that they return the card raw.
I personally have submitted 2 cards back to SGC that I felt were overgraded and neither of them were down graded and I was told personally way not when I inquired. I personally have about 10 cards in SGC holders that I feel are undergraded, but until I feel I need to sell the cards I will not resubmit them. I prefer a company that is more strict on there grades than one that gives high grades out frequently. There will be a day when collectors began to realize the there are plently of PSA cards 8 or higher and not many by companies such as SGC, SCD, or GAI that do not give out these grades liberally.

Another question how do we know pop reports are acurate?

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

Lee - Not certain if you know or not but SCD is no longer grading cards.

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Posted By: TBob

over the SGC grade on the Miller card. I agree with Dan 100%, if I had submitted it, it comes back SGC 20.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

is that a corner crease or a printing flaw; I can't tell from the scan.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I guess I was unaware that SCD no longer grades, there has been more SCD cards available lately in there holders. I have been happy with the ones I won.

Lee

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Posted By: runscott

I just won an SCD card that should arrive any day now. I have only owned one previously, and I liked it fine.

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Posted By: leon

As almost always I will chime in and get flamed....so be it. On the George C. Miller card....my opinion - 1 grade too high. It should be a vg. No way should it be lower than that, imo. On the N43 card...again, I think 1 grade too high.....I don't see any creases, moderate rounding of corners, and if not for the o/c, would agree with their grade . Shoot me now......but these are my views on them. The way I came up with those is from experience and thinking of what the other grades look like, from SGC.....best regards

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Posted By: jay behrens

I am still convinced that SGC is way too brutal on caramel issues and issues that they are unfamiliar with. I sit here and look at the Wild West/Indian cards I have graded and wonder how my cards with corners that are barely touched and perfectly centered get a 50. I've always been tough a grader, but I feel about 1/3 of my cards are undergraded by about a grade, and all are caramel cards or Wild West Indian cards. I have 6 m116s that look to be the same grade as these undergraded cards, yet they pulled more appropriate grades. I suspect that one card is grossly undergraded because of it's obscurity. There are black fibers that look like print marks, and all cards in the set have these. yet, if you are not aware of this, I can see how it get downgraded.

Jay

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Posted By: BOTN

not intending to insult your ability but it sounds like there are some minor wrinkles in your cards that are bringing them down to VGEX. SGC will not intentionally under grade a card. Not sure how you examine your cards but I use a 50 watt halogen desk lamp and turn the card on every possible angle.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I wish you could see the SGC EX Gehringer George C Miller I sold. I was expecting a NM 7 out of it. Mitch Rosen bought it so I hope he can post a scan. For my card to be just 1 up from this one, then mine is 3 grades low if this one is only 1 grade too high.
I could live with VG on this one but I will guarantee you I would get a GOOD if I submitted it. Dan.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Greg, here are 3 that I feel are really off. The Sitting bull is the one with fibers that look like print lines, but they don't show up in the scan. Backs on all these cards are as nice as the fronts. The Roosevelt has a slight diamond cut, but no way, even by SGC grading guide, does this card warrant a 50.

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Posted By: BOTN

Jay,

The cards certainly look better than their grades. Without seeing the cards in person I could not say what SGC saw or thought they saw which lead them to assigning those grades.

I still contend that there must be a wrinkle otherwise this whole grading thing is nothing more than a complete joke. I am not ready to conclude that yet.

Have you ever submitted cards back to SGC for review? At the very minimum they can show you where the problem is.

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Posted By: jay behrens

If I go to the NAtional this year, I am going to bring at least the Sitting Bull card with me and explain to them that all the cards have black fibers in the cardboard and that it is not a flaw. As I've mentioned, I've gone over them with a 10x loupe and there are no wrinkles, so I am not sure why they got hammered. My e92 Rebel isn't as nice as the Teddy card and it got a 70.

Jay

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

We can all pitch in and get Jay some cheese to go with his cheap whine.

I sent in all my best and I could only get a high of 60 and I thought that might be over graded. Where were my 88's? Oh that's right I didn't submit to PSA.

Darn good thing I didn't submit to SCD I wouldn't have much to show, would I?

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Posted By: 823 dek

Lee,

In reference to my last post....what I meant by none higher than 84, was not about population reports , it was based on how could all the best cards be all 84's?

The none higher meaning why wasn't just "1" an 86 ?
Thee 11+, I agree confusing , I wasn't sure if it were 11 or 12, but at least 11 84's.

One card graded a 50 due to a print dot , well Mastros psa8 Tinker had about 4 ...HMMMMMM.....though it is not Mastros fault or whomever sent that one in, but cmon w/ the inconsistencies. The rest were between 60- 80, oh well.

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Posted By: runscott

SGC would never grade a card in that condition a "VGEX" unless it had some sort of surface wrinkle, possibly extremely minor as in the '55 Tom Landry I posted.

Now, on the other hand - the last batch of cards I got back from SGC had bits of paper and other garbage sealed into the holders, so perhaps there was a hair on the back of your card that the grader thought was a wrinkle. Some people's moms never taught them card-grading hygiene I guess.