TOO STUFFY HERE - YOU WIN - STARTING MY OWN!!

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Posted By: (www.bestbaseballcards.com)

While it is obvious that my opinion was not appreciated here, I will stick to my guns and suggest EVERYTHING I SAID WAS FACTUAL and ACCURATE. I see a lot of biased opinions here (some obviously are $$$ biased), but a few dozen have responded privately to me in a nice manner.

I "NOW" understand this forum is "PRE-WAR" only, of which I know very little about. My interests are from T206 to current, so excuse my ignorance in the 19th century stuff.

No one knew of any forums I could go to "spout off" besides someone recommened "CU" and another recommended "BECKETT". I have no interest in the "BECKETT" forums. My opinoions are to remain "unbiased".

Whereas it may appear I am "pro-beckett", I am actually quite upset with them, but my interests are for "investment" and FUN, and that will take presidence.

Please someone give me the link for "CU"?

I have found that it is quite easy to start your OWN FORUMS here, so that is EXACTLY WHAT I DID. For those of you here that are interested in sharing in "baseball cards" that are not stuck on "19th CENTURY ONLY", please follow me to:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272988



http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: Todd

This is far from being a 19th century only site. While we have debated the issue of what is vintage, and discussions generally focus on pre-1945 issues, there are periodic threads of stuff from the 50s, maybe even later from time to time.

Other than the time frame of cards discussed, I think you'll find a wider range of opinions on this board than anywhere else, although some of the PSA guys might spit up their beer (do they drink beer?) reading that. Although the board may appear elitist at times, I believe the only two requirements for posters are: a love of sports cards/photos/books/memorabilia and a somewhat tough skin. Things can get chirpy here, but it is seldom personal, and even then, it generally burns itself up fairly quickly.

Hang around, and of course feel free to go to the CU boards too-- heck, I read them regularly (he said in a fit of penitence ) Just leave the newer stuff for those who enjoy it, 'cause like it or not, at least on this board, that dog don't hunt.

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Posted By: (www.bestbaseballcards.com)

Well, it certainly seemed like several spoke up stating that my remarks had no place in this forum. I never ONCE said that Beckett had market share or even a contender in "pre-war" stuff. I said that they are more strict, and given the choice of the same grade, I would opt for the beckett. Maybe there aren't a lot of "old judge" bvg cards, but if there was a bvg and a gai of the same grade for the same price, I would jump on the beckett....heck i could probably submit it to psa or gai for a 1/2 grade or even a whole grade higher! I have never been disappointed with the condition of a graded card by beckett, but I can't say that about any other grading company.

http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: Todd

until we see a bunch of Beckett graded cards from pre-1935, your statement lacks verifiability and therefore veracity. Beckett may indeed be the strictest/best/insertyourkudohere on the new stuff, but there is no reason for me to believe they have the experience and expertise to grade the older material collected by the folks on this board better than SGC or others (except PRO). Maybe time will tell that they do, but, since you obviously consider yourself investment savvy, you should consider and question why there is not a whole lot more old stuff residing in Beckett holders, if in fact that's where the smart money should play.

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Posted By: Aaron Michiel

or anything, but do you really think that you should be advising anybody about "investing" in baseball cards and running "market analysis" of the various pros and cons between grading services, if you know so little about the hobby that you didn't know that PSA did not exist 20 years ago?

Again, I'm not saying this to provoke you, but to try and help you. I myself am a novice compared to some of the regular posters I've read here over the past few months.

To get more background on the various grading services and some comprehensive context for the history of the hobby, I would recommend you buy the entire run of a magazine called Vintage and Classic Baseball Collector. (It's relevant even to someone such as yourself who is interested in modern cards.)

The run stretches back to 1995 and offers an amazing perspective on the development of grading card services (just one issue of many that is touched upon) that is very eye-opening and educational.

It's hard for collectors who have only been in the hobby for a couple years to grasp that just a few years ago neither professional grading services nor the Internet were widely used or accepted as permanent fixtures in the hobby.

You can find the magazines at http://www.vcbc.com/

I think the run itself is about $140.00.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi All,
I have no respect for Beckett grading of Vintage material. Anyone who grades a rebacked T206, and won't correct the problem has no legitimacy with me.
I agree with MW, JAY and many others that very few Vintage cards are in slabs at the momment, in fact I submit 100's of tobacco cards to PSA& SGC each month.
Despite what you may think, the contributors to this board are not onle the most knowledgeable, but the most generous collectors in the Hobby. We welcome newcomers and respect there opinions, but when you make ridiculous comments without factual evidence you should expect to get slammmed. Don't go away, just think before you speak, or listen and learn.
BE well Brian

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Posted By: Anonymous

Why do you submit 100's of cards to psa and sgc every month? Which do you send to sgc and which to psa? and why not to GAI?

http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

"Why do you send 100's of cards to PSA & Sgc"?

Answer: I send cards To PSA because they have a better resale value, and I send my personal items to SGC because I like there holders and customer service. Gai has nice holders, but they are not as strict as SGC, nor do they command the prices of PSA, so they are of no use to me. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

You are not reading what we write except what you feel is wrong and you are constantly corrected. This board has a wealth of knowledge that you will find no where else. I could give you a huge education on what you are trying to coney to everyone and there is probably 25 people on this board that give me an education all the time on this board. Me and my brother both live in MN and probably are 2 of the most knowledgable people in the state about vintage cards, but you know what there are not many vintage collectors in MN, if I am the most knowledgable person in the state on vintage cards does that make me any more knowledgable as a whole, NO. I read, listen and learn everyone on this board gets educated none of us know everything, but the knowledge base is huge and greatly appreciated.

This board is also read by people at SGC, Bob Lemke (SCD price Guide), Doug Allen (Mastro) and I am sure other "big" figures in the hobby that we do not know of. This speaks volume for the content of the threads and people that frequent the board.

Mike, You have created an interesting discussion, it is just that you need to stop arguing and start listening.

One last thing that bothers me, please don't take this as offensive I would just like to know. Why do you continue to promote your site on every link and why do you sell cards on an educational site? It seems kind of self serving.

Read and learn, we all do and have on this board.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I know that you are not aware of the people that frequent this board but You have brought afew people that I have never seen posting and quite a few infrequent posters that have voiced there opinion. I believed this has happened because they are interested in helping you gain knowledge, as we all are.

Please Head and Read

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I Just wanted to post again to see what Hankron feels like.

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Posted By: Todd

I tell everyone here in Arizona how great the education system is in my home state of Minnesota and you break out with
<Me and my brother both live in MN >?

The grammar police say you owe me an e-95 of your choice in at least vg-ex condition; or-option B, you can tell me to stick the E-95 up my Philadelphia Caramel Company

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'm still contesting the DNA results that say he is my brother.

Jay

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I passed hooked on Phonics and dropped out of the next level of grammar. There is not much hope for me when it comes to English.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Why do you send 100's of cards to PSA & Sgc"?

Answer: I send cards To PSA because they have a better resale value, and I send my personal items to SGC because I like there holders and customer service. Gai has nice holders, but they are not as strict as SGC, nor do they command the prices of PSA, so they are of no use to me. Be well Brian

THat makes sense...I can buy that. Personally, I prefer SGC to PSA also. I haven't realized that PSA has better resale value than SGC for the "old stuff". (Like I have said, I mainly collect "newer" stuff which is why I probably don't belong in this forum.

When I do my searches on ebay, I include sgc in my searches for these players:

dimaggio,honus,mathewson,foxx,walter johnson,cobb,cy

For other HOF'ers though, I only search PSA, BVG, and BGS.

Here is the link...

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=%28%22cy+young%22%2C%22honus%22%2 C%22christy+mathewson%22%2C%22walter+johnson%22%2C cobb%2Cfoxx%29+%28sgc%2Cpsa%2Cbvg%2Cbgs%29+-196*+-197*+-194*+-195*+-ball+-198*&sosortorder=2&ht=1&sosortproperty=2&from=R10&BasicSearch=


http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: Hankron

I got hooked on phonics, once. Had to spend 3 months at the Betty Ford clinic.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
Read What we Write December 9 2003, 9:39 PM

You are not reading what we write except what you feel is wrong and you are constantly corrected. This board has a wealth of knowledge that you will find no where else. I could give you a huge education on what you are trying to coney to everyone and there is probably 25 people on this board that give me an education all the time on this board. Me and my brother both live in MN and probably are 2 of the most knowledgable people in the state about vintage cards, but you know what there are not many vintage collectors in MN, if I am the most knowledgable person in the state on vintage cards does that make me any more knowledgable as a whole, NO. I read, listen and learn everyone on this board gets educated none of us know everything, but the knowledge base is huge and greatly appreciated.

This board is also read by people at SGC, Bob Lemke (SCD price Guide), Doug Allen (Mastro) and I am sure other "big" figures in the hobby that we do not know of. This speaks volume for the content of the threads and people that frequent the board.

Mike, You have created an interesting discussion, it is just that you need to stop arguing and start listening.


ME:
I am listening and learning....I don't know what I have been corrected on though, except for maybe that PSA didn't exist 20 years ago. I never stated BVG is a main contender of 19th century cards. Someone jumped on that, and everyone else agreed. I never argued that point. My point was that they are the toughest graders....and no one can argue that point...the sales statistics on ebay speak for themselves. A BVG 5 jackie robinson rookie sold for $1100.... Beckett won't gain much market share for vintage, SIMPLY because the dealers know they won't get the grade they can get with PSA.

http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: Anonymous

I know that you are not aware of the people that frequent this board but You have brought afew people that I have never seen posting and quite a few infrequent posters that have voiced there opinion. I believed this has happened because they are interested in helping you gain knowledge, as we all are.

Please Head and Read

I have learned a few things, as I believe I also enlightened some. THat is the purpose of a forum. I also am glad for competition as it helps keep things a "little more honest". I am sure most of the people here are "beckett haters". I am sure they have caused a lot of heart-ache for many. I know PSA and SGC have the market for vintage, and that GAI is tapping that market (with major help from major dealers). I am also convinced that many PSA cards are being re-slabbed by GAI. So if I knew all of this stuff already, what have I supposedly learned.

I have learned that there is a lot of "heavy-hitters" here with a lot of knowledge. I will keep my ears open, and continue to base my opinions on factual data and statistics.


http://www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: runscott

you would sit back, shut up, and read for a month or two. You admit you know nothing about vintage cards, but yet you have no respect for the opinions of those who do - some of these guys have spent 20 years or more collecting and dealing in card issues that you know nothing about.

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Posted By: jay behrens

This is exactly the point that my brother is trying to make, you once again bring up prices realized and how tough Beckett is supposed to be on grading, yet it means nothing to us here becuase there are not grading much in teh way of vintage cards. One of the few vintage cards that we have seen graded by Beckett happens to be a rebacked card that is known within hobby cirles. They may be a 'strict' grader by your standards, but if they can't identify altered vintage card, what makes you think they can identify a fake or altered modern card?

Jay

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Posted By: Anonymous

One last thing that bothers me, please don't take this as offensive I would just like to know. Why do you continue to promote your site on every link and why do you sell cards on an educational site? It seems kind of self serving.

SIMPLE: When I first signed up, I filled out the little box that says signature, and I put my web url in there, so it is showing up on every message I leave. I changed my signature for you...besides the board doesn't generate any money...what I really need is a JOB!


ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE A JOB FOR A COMPUTER NETWORK PERSON WITH STRONG INTEREST IN BASEBALL CARDS! WILLING TO RELOCATE!

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
This is exactly the point that my brother is trying to make, you once again bring up prices realized and how tough Beckett is supposed to be on grading, yet it means nothing to us here becuase there are not grading much in teh way of vintage cards.

ME:
So? I understand that...nothing there to argue about. I NEVER debated that statement.

YOU:
One of the few vintage cards that we have seen graded by Beckett happens to be a rebacked card that is known within hobby cirles. They may be a 'strict' grader by your standards, but if they can't identify altered vintage card, what makes you think they can identify a fake or altered modern card?

ME:
I am sure PSA has improperly graded MANY cards over the years especially in their infancy years. I am also convinced that both companies weed out 99% of the counterfeits, trimmed and altered cards.

ANOTHER THING A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE AREN'T TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ARE THE AMOUNT OF "NEWLY" GRADED CARDS. THEY THINK THAT BECKETT DOESN'T HAVE ANY MARKET SHARE becasue they don't see a lot of them on the market, but if PSA started using a new holder, how many new cards would you see? The amount of newly graded GAI cards seem to high to NOT believe that PSA cards are being re-slabbed.

ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE A JOB FOR A COMPUTER NETWORK PERSON WITH STRONG INTEREST IN BASEBALL CARDS! WILLING TO RELOCATE!

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Posted By: Jeff O

Just a little tip for Mr. Bestbaseballcards.com (I'm not trying to be a smart aleck with that name... but just don't know what else to call you), as it appears that you can't seem to figure out why your opinions are taking a little heat on this board.

Consider the facts... you show up out of the blue a few days ago and immediately start making a whole bunch of statements about how great Beckett grading is, and including your website with every post... all this before testing the waters at all or really contributing to other posts. What are people supposed to think? To a regular reader of this board, it appears like you're just someone out to promote a specific agenda, likely for your own gain. I don't know if this is true in your case or not... but we see this kind of stuff here with some frequency, and your behaviour fits the "M.O.".

Perhaps you would be better served by taking a little time and getting a feel for the board... maybe getting your feet wet first, before diving in.

And dude, enough with asking people for jobs. You're kidding, right? I'm sorry you're unemployed... I was there myself once, and it sucked. But c'mon... have a little dignity.

Jeff

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
as it appears that you can't seem to figure out why your opinions are taking a little heat on this board.

ME:
I understand perfectly. Those that speak up do not like or respect Beckett. Most of the people here, as I can tell that have spoke up, are "big time" dealers or collectors with lots of money invested, and Beckett has cost them money. What don't I understand??

YOU:
Consider the facts... you show up out of the blue a few days ago and immediately start making a whole bunch of statements about how great Beckett grading is,

ME:
I DON'T THINK THAT IS QUITE HOW IT WENT. MY INITIAL POST WAS CURIOUSITY ABOUT GAI AND HOW THEY ARE QUICKLY GAINING MARKET SHARE. HERE WAS MY ORIGINAL POST:

AS YOU CAN SEE, I CAME HERE ASKING AND SEEKING KNOWLEDGE. My question was answered.....THAT THE BIG BOYS ARE IN BED WITH GAI. PSA CARDS ARE BEING RESLABBED TO GAIN MARKET SHARE, and I AM SURE THERE IS SOME BACK RUBBING GOING ON.

AS FAR AS MY WEBSITE URL BEING POSTED, AS I ALREADY EXPAINED, WHEN I FIRST SIGNED UP, I PUT MY URL IN MY SIGNATURE FILE. I HAVE REMOVED IT SINCE IT DISTURBS A FEW.

AM I HERE FOR MY OWN AGENDA...sure, I guess everyone is. I was actually invited, but I won't say by whom because I know I have already ruined my reputation here and I won't ambarass that person. I really came here to find out about GAI, and my question has been answered in a round about way.

Since I really have no interest in 19th century, I won't miss the forum any more than any of you will miss me....

Just out of curiosity though, does prewar stuff continue to rise in value? Any examples....I personally really prefer to collect who I have either seen or those that are "REALLY FAMOUS". Are most of you "really old" or what drives someone to wanting to collect 19th century? sounds like a new topic..will post it....

-------------------------------------------------------

This company seems to be getting a LOT of business, and I personally don't know why... Their prices can't be that much cheaper than BGS or PSA whom are well known and respected.

I bought my first GAI card the other day, and it obviously isn't as strict as PSA OR BGS, yet their cards seem to bring better prices than the other "non-established" grading companies.

I have had problems with all the "other" grading companies (ie pro, fgs, capitol and the like)...I really don't know why we need yet "ANOTHER" inferior grading company?

I see they have prior PSA employees, and some big names, and they have influence with some of the "big dealers", but I don't understand why the big dealers or collectors are giving them interest???

On a final note, are these forums just for pre war cards, and if so, does anyone know of any good forums for "non-pre-war"....

----------------------------------------

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Posted By: TBob

"The big boys are in bed with GAI"????
I defended GAI and I am a collector first and foremost who usually sells only cards he has doubles of, through upgrades, or cards he buys in lots which aren't ones he is particularly interested in collecting. All the "big boys" I know send their cards to SGC and PSA. I claim no compensation from GAI and get treated as brutally under their grading as anyone else, but I still think they are becoming the best in the business. SGC is more consistent with their grading than PSA of caramel and tobacco cards and I think SGC is less likely to be swayed by the submittor of the cards than PSA, but I think GAI is the most fair and objective. I do agree that cards encapsulated by PSA because of their history bring more than cards graded by SGC and GAI but I think will change in the years ahead.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Mike,

You seem to jump to conclusions about board members, how old we are, I am 39 and all the board members I have met personally (about 20) rage in age from late 20's to mid 50's. We all have one big thing in common, we love baseball and the history of the game and that includes baseball cards and memorablia.

The other thing, you seem to think we are all millionares, I for one am just a common guy that works at a bowling center and love baseball and its history. I prefer to spend my disposable income on T206's and T202's which to me are a better investment than the stock market. In answer to your question about whether prices are going up the answer is definately yes, and it has a better future than ANY new card that comes out no matter how few are printed. The cards are 75 yrs. or older the guys have already finished there career and you can't buy them at Target. That makes for a better future. Have you watched the 50 & 60's market, you are lucky to get 40% of "book". The "investment" potential is here in pre WWII cards.

Your Beckett analogy is like going to a baseball game and talking about chemistry all the time, we know of it but it has nothing to do with why we are here. You just never quite caught on to the fact.

How's my English, Todd?

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Posted By: jay behrens

There is a huge difference between a professionally trimmed card slipping thru the cracks and a card with hobby history that is known to be rebacked getting slabbed as a legit.

As for thinking that Beckett is costing me, or anyone else on this board, money because they are gaining market share is laughable. I have about a dozen slabbed cards, all SGC because the holders do the best job of showing off the card. If you think Beckett is strict, start collecting caramel cards and submitt then to SGC.

Jay

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Posted By: Anonymous

Lucky to get 40% of BV for 50-60s??

I guess it depends on what you collect....do ebay searches on the rookie HOF'ers in psa 8. You will be lucky to get for book....

the cards i collect from 50-60 are like

57 frank robinson
57 brooks robinson
59 bob gibson
60 yaztremski (please don't correct my spelling)
62 brock
63 pete rose
64 pete rose
68 bench
68 nolan ryan


which of these can you get for 40% of book in a psa 8 or even a 7 for that matter? I will take all you have.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Once again you point the exception and not the rule. And the vast majority of 50-60s cards are NOT PSA8 so cards aren't going to get anywhere near book value.

Please remember, you dealing with a bunch of people here, many that have an indepth knowledge of the hobby and market, so trying to bambuzzle us with exceptions is not going to work.

Also, my brother may not have been too clear, but I would be willing to bet he was probably talking about raw cards.

Jay

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Posted By: david

is there any way that elliot can block future post from this guy. i am sick of his ranting and raving about beckett grading vs SGC PSA and GAI. You obviously know nothing about vintage cards or any other grading companies except beckett. at this point the only purpose you are serving to this board is to take up bandwidth.

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Posted By: Chris (the illini)

You would think someone who is so desperate for a job that he asks for one on a baseball card board would be out hunting for said job instead of writing long winded posts about a grading company.

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Posted By: Jeff M

Beckett.com is located in the North Dallas area. We offer employees a nice facility in which to be successful, with state-of-the-art equipment in a casual setting. Our benefits are exceptional. They include health and dental insurance, life insurance, 401(k), paid time off, educational reimbursements, computer reimbursements, personal Internet service reimbursements, opportunities to attend professional sports events, subscriptions to our magazines, on-site exercise equipment, and a basketball/volleyball court. Employees will enjoy an exciting atmosphere in which to develop and promote our popular products. In addition, employees are encouraged to pursue their personal collectible interests.

beckett.com
15850 Dallas Parkway
Dallas, TX 75248
We are accepting resumes from qualified candidates for the following full-time positions. Please note that all of our positions are located on-site in Dallas, Texas.



MAGAZINE EDITOR
Combine your hobby with your career! We are looking for a collector who is an experienced magazine editor. Responsibilities include story planning and development, editing, creating paginations, directing freelance writers and writing sports collectibles-focused features for both print and online applications.

Please email your cover letter stating why you believe you would be a fit for this position, along with your resume, to jlayton@beckett.com.


PRICE GUIDE ANALYST
If you enjoy tracking the secondary market for collectibles then consider a career within Sports Data Publishing--the price guide department. Qualified applicants generally have specific knowledge and expertise in one or more collectibles areas, not necessarily trading cards only, and enjoy gathering and analyzing secondary market activity on collectibles.

Please complete this online questionnaire, and then email your resume and the questionnaire to jobs@beckett.com.


ADVERTISING SALES ACCOUNT EXECUTIVE
We are looking for a dynamic self-starter to be part of our advertising sales team for this inside sales position. The Account Executive will be responsible for selling advertising in our sports and specialty magazines as well as our online site. Qualifications include a minimum of 2-3 years of recent advertising sales experience, print experience required, online a bonus. Ideal candidate would be able to communicate effectively (verbal and written), be appropriately aggressive, show creativity in generating leads, be Internet savvy, and be able to prioritize and meet deadlines. Knowledge of our industry a plus.
DALLAS-AREA APPLICANTS PREFERRED

Please email your cover letter and resume to jlayton@beckett.com.

Other Opportunities:
EDITORIAL INTERN
We are in need of an intern to help us edit our monthly sports magazines. Qualifications include knowledge of Word and Quark. Excel knowledge would also be a plus. We offer a flexible schedule during regular business hours, with a maximum of 18 hours/week.
DALLAS-AREA APPLICANTS PREFERRED

Please email your cover letter and resume to cfowler@beckett.com



FREELANCE WRITERS
Beckett.com is looking to add to its pool of freelance collectibles writers. We continue to seek market-intensive stories that reflect trends in the card and collectibles industry. Send your best hobby story idea, a sample of your writing and your resume to: freelance@beckett.com, or mail them to:

Freelance Department
Attn. Editorial Intern, beckett.com
15850 Dallas Parkway, Dallas, TX 75248.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I was actually refering to raw and graded cards from this era. Your so called NMT and above are a minor exception to the whole market otherwise why do they list values below NMT. I have 4 graded EX/MT 57 commons that I could not even get $10 apiece on ebay. We all understand how the graded card situation works on this board.

As it has been pointed out many times to you. You need to start listening and learn. Ask questions, don't attack every post you just make yourself the court jester and more and more readers will never respond to you.

A suggestion is to go to the CU (Collectors Universe) board and add your link. You have a forum there, invite them to participate. They discuss the thinks you seemed to be more interested. Come here read ask questions and education these people. The way you are going about is just alienating yourself.

Can someone please provide a link for Mike.

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Posted By: Todd

Here's a link to one forum, which includes a thread on an alleged trimmed BGS 10 card:

http://forums.collectors.com/categories.cfm?catid=11&zb=9388524

and another with criticism of BVG's "relaxed" standards:

http://forums.collectors.com/categories.cfm?catid=29&zb=9907143