Another one to watch out for : harleyman714

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

First of all, Harleyman, You should know that an arguement is always more coherent and effective when you know the name of the person your arguing with, especially when that person's name is on the screen in front of you.

Secondly, I don't care if you take major offense at what I've said or not. If I'm wrong about any of the things I've stated, then I will concede those points, however, I think I have a legitimate arguement regarding your selling activies on ebay and I intend to make my concerns known to other collectors within the hobby.

The facts:

1.) You offered auction # 2743882378, (4 ) 1887 OLD JUDGE N172 BASEBALL CARDS NR! Start Time: Jul-23-03 14:32:44

LINK: http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743882378&category=31719

2.) It was a private auction, which if you frequent this forum, you would know that private auction's are almost always an indication of fraud, shill bidding, or other questionable selling activites.

3.) After seeing this auction I sent you an e-mail on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:33 PM, letting you know that these cards were reprints and I told you exactly the reasons why I thought they were not authentic, including the fact that they appeared to be Fritsch reprints.

4.) You replied on 7/24/2003 7:14:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time with e-mail stating the following "thank you, what is their website please, and I am selling as reprints to be safe, thankx again"---I gave you Fritsch's web address.

5.) You then replied on 7/24/2003 10:15:16 PM, "thx, but those look nothing like my cards" --even though they are clearly Fritsch reprints.

6.) I sent you another e-mail on Friday, July 25, 2003 2:35 AM, telling you that whether or not these were Fritsch reprints or not, they were still not authentic in any way. You continued to offer them for sale under the possibility that they "could be" real, that "you never know", even though I gave you all the evidence in the world that they were NOT authentic.

7.) Your response to that on 7/25/2003 2:37:15 AM was: "THANK YOU, MUCH APPRECIATED, THAT’S WHY I AM NOT SELLING AS ORIGINALS, I KNOW W/O GRADING YOU CAN NEVER BE SURE, AND I THANK YOU" However a remotely knowledgeable collector can 9 times out of 10 tell the difference between a clearly reprinted card and an authentic pre-WWII card. You also continued to sell them as if they were reprints, BUT, that they could be real.

AND NOW THE GRAVY....

8.) You didn't pull the auction off early because of the kindness of your heart, your reason is clearly stated on the auction page: "The seller ended this listing early to sell to the high bidder(s) at current bid price." The final price was $96.00.

9.) You provided this description for your auction:

Recently purchased as a part of an estate liquidation, this lot of 4 1887 OLD JUDGE N172 BASEBALL CARDS are most probably reprints and are being offered for auction today as such, however upon close examination of these cards, under 10x magnification I surely can't see the difference., stranger things have happened at estate sales, REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE DISCOVERED IN THE BACK OF THE $10 PICTURE FRAME! Eventually sold for over 1 MILLION DOLLARS! SURE Makes YOU THINK TWICE.!!

THIS UNBELIEVABLE LOT OF FOUR (4)1887 OLD JUDGE N172 CARDS (I BELIEVE THATS WHAT THEY ARE)INCLUDE WARD, DUFFEY, KEEFE, and ONE PLAYER I CANNOT IDENTIFY.

WE ARE OFFERRING THIS RARE LOT OF 4 1887 N172 OLD JUDGE CARDS TODAY WITH NO RESERVE!

FREE S/H/I FOR THE FIRST LUCKY HIGH BIDDER TO USE "BUY IT NOW".

THIS MAY BE ONE OF YOUR ONLY CHANCES TO GET A COUPLE OF THESE CARDS WITHOUT BREAKING THE BANK.

AGAIN, WITHOUT GRADING VERIFICATION, I MUST OFFER THESE AS REPRINTS, AND AUCTION THEM ON THAT BASIS, YOU BE THE JUDGE.

Good Luck, Check My Feedback and BID WITH CONFIDENCE!!

All sales are final, thanks.


10.) Only at the very end did you state that since they weren't graded by a professional service you had to offer them as reprints even though you made every attempt in your description prior to that sentence to give a potential bidder the illusion that there was a decent chance that these could be the real thing, even after I had told you the many reasons that they could NEVER be authentic. You continued to sell them with that "they could be reprints, but you never can tell" and "under 10x magnification I surely can't see the difference". AND have continued to use that approach on other vintage card auctions after this one.

In closing,
For someone who supports the cause against people like eagle8016 and frequents this board, you seem to have a lot of trouble distinguishing between real and reprinted vintage cards. A collector or seller who's done even a little research can tell the difference between a REAL N172 Old Judge and a Fritsch reprint or a REAL 1933 Goudey and a Dover reprint. If you support this board so much, how is it that you can't tell if your cards are fake, even though threads about detecting fakes and altered vintage cards are posted on here almost daily?

Well, what's your excuse? Error? Ignorance? The fact is your arguement is ridiculous at best. You sir, are an amateur. Your arguement has no evidence in your favor to support it. You may not tell whole lies like eagle8016, but you DO tell half-lies, by feigning ignorance about the authenticity of the cards you sell. By offering them to bidders as "POTENTIALLY AUTHENTIC" then you are engaging in arguably fraudulent behavior. In my opinion, after reading the threads on this board and getting e-mails from people like me telling you that the cards you are selling are 100% fake, there should be no good reason why you can't tell the difference.

P.S.: My card collection may leave something to be desired, but at least my cards are real...fool.