Pete Rose in the HOF?

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

When I saw Killebrew, he had just had half his stomache removed because of cancer. I knew he had jsut sold off a large portion of his personal collection because of the illness, so giving him the photo was the least I could do.

Jay

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Look at Alex Karas(sp) & Paul Horning! Both in the football Hall of Fame and both were convicted and suspended for betting ON THEIR OWN TEAM*. So why is baseball more restrictive and less forgiving than Football?


And Mark, I am glad you got rid of Mr.Banana! The dancing logo was starting to make me dizzy. I like Homer's boss much better!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

First, the Yankees won the AL flag in 1926, the first of three in a row.

Second, my point about Cobb and Speaker was that they acted before the Black Sox scandal. Your earlier post stated "Next, I believe that Cobb, Speaker and Wood were all totally aware of what happened in 1919 with the Black Sox, yet placed bets on baseball games". That appears untrue.

Third, I actually said that even the Black Sox would have some argument that their punishment was too harsh and was passed ex post facto... that had they known they could be banished for life they may have acted differently. Same holds true for anyone (including Cobb and Speaker) who acted before Landis took office. Rose has no such excuse. The rule was clearly expressed and has been for decades. I asked whether anyone has escaped punishment since its enactment--no one has provided an example.

Finally, you keep referring to Cobb's influence on Landis, but show no facts. You claim Leonard was afraid to testify, but his career was over by the time this came up, so he had little to lose professionally. Again, Cobb and Speaker were for the most part washed up after the '26 season. It just doesn't wash with me that iron-fisted Judge Landis was "star-struck" by old Tyrus to the point of being afraid to move forward. I remain ready to be educated, however.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

so we don't know how he would react to the Rose situation. Also, fixing a World Series is considerably worse than fixing a game that has no impact on who wins the pennant. And yes, even though this happened late in Cobb and Speaker's career, they were still icons of the game.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

of the conversations between Cobb, Speaker and Landis, and the end result, Landis' reaction surprised me. However, I think he felt that since their careers were basically over, that it was in the best interest of the game to gloss over it and move on - this scandal was not nearly as public as the Black Sox deal. I also think that Cobb and Speaker's ending up in Philadelphia immediately thereafter was a direct result of their indiscretions.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom B

that Rose 'accepted' a ban that he thought was just a couple (few) years? Not lifetime. Most everything I've seen written slanted toward that way I thought. While, unfortunatly, since Bart Giamatti is dead, no one can really decide either way.

Also, even though Landis reviewed the Cobb incident in 1926, I still think he might have been more hesitant to do anything in that case for a couple of reasons including Cobb's career winding down plus the tainted White Sox incident, only 6-7 years removed. I think if he'd banished Cobb or the others, it would have re-cast a pall over the game.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

Remember the old joke about Philly:

A plane from LA to NY runs into some rough weather and the pilot announces that they are diverting to Philadelphia.

"Philadelphia", a drunk yells, "I'd rather crash in New York than land in Philadelphia."

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

Todd- I thought you said 1925 but I checked and you did say 1926. In 1924 and 1925 the Washington Senators were AL champs. My bad.
As far as Dutch Leonard's reluctance to testify, it was not that his career was ending and Cobb's nearing its twilight that was the issue, it was that Leonard was afraid of the psychotic Cobb's horrible temper and the perceived ability to exact revenge off the field which frightened Leonard. Law enforcement officers seemed to look the other way when Cobb was busy committing felonious acts.
A report came out today that Rose bet on around 50 Cincy games as a manager over a roughly two month period, always to win, not that that matters I guess. He also bet on hundreds of other games...

[Archive]

Posted By: W.M.

Cobb probably did try and influence the oucome of a game back in 1919. But Leonard no saint himself had a lot of motivation for raising the allegation in 1926. He hated Cobb and Speaker and swore he would someday get back at Cobb for cutting him from the Tigers. As far as being scared of Cobb as reason for not testifying, I doub't it. Leonard sold this story to the news papers in 1926, if Cobb wanted him dead he would have killed him then. If you want to talk rights guaranteed in a criminal case and apply it to this civil case one of our most important constitutional guarantees is the right to confront and cross examine our accusers, if Leonard refuses to testify Cobb does not get that right. Landis conducted and investigation into this incident and even accepted resignations from Cobb and Speaker. On Jan 5, 1927 40 witnesses were marched in front of Landis he learned that back in 1919 even the beloved Giants threw "good fellowship games"

Landis learned what he already knew Players tampered with the outcome of games back in 1919. He found no proof that it was still happening.

As for Rose his problems continue again by his own choosing. A report in todays San Diego Union says that Rose was seen gambling in Las Vegas this week and he owes $151,689 dollars to the IRS. They have filed a lean on a house he owns. He may be going to prison long before he ever gets into the HOF.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

Cobb ADMITTED he bet on that game, there's no PROBABLY to it.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

...for a copy of the "letter" and most of his interview with Landis, verbatim.