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#101
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
<< It was only a matter of time before you edit, for spelling my first post. >> |
#102
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
Spelling in your email is different than spelling on this website? Does an object have the same weight but different mass on the moon? Didn't think so. |
#103
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Hey Mike, |
#104
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
I am about as far from a disciple of MW as you can get. We have had more than few heated debates, but this does not mean that I blindly think everything he says is a lie or the truth. I will back up someone, regardless of whether I am a discople or not, if what they are saying is something I agree with or know to be a fact. |
#105
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Albie O'Hanian
Lee-I would guess that the sellers listed below made a small profit on those cards. Sometimes you can benefit by sending a card in to get graded by PSA. |
#106
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
Albie, not sure if you've ever submitted cards for grading, but 9s adn 10s don't grow on trees, even with PSA's lax grading of late. If you can get one or 2 of your cards to grade in taht range, then it was most likely worth submitting all those cards, but the VAST majority do not make this grade, thus the reason for my brother's question. |
#107
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
Albie, Check out the 1973 Topps example you posted and tell me you honestly think that card deserves a 10. The front looks nice, but no way a card should be a 10 with the back off center. |
#108
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
Don't get on your SGC high horse too quickly. If it (fake holders) happened to PSA, it can certainly happen to SGC. After all, SGC holders are 10x easier to crack without damage than PSA holders. |
#109
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Lee Behrens
This isn't just about changing holders, there will always be criminals out there out smarting us, but they usually are not so called reputable companies. It's more about what my brother just pointed out. How do you justify the 10 with a O/C back. This is the facts that scare me. |
#110
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
I don't have my caliper with me but it looks to be within 75-25 (published PSA standards for back of card). By the way, here is a PSA 8 that is bringing in big $. So it's not just commons in 9 or 10 holders that sell for big money. |
#111
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: John(z28jd)
this thread was just too long for me to not be in it at least once....its officially the longest thread eve on this board which just proves you put psa or sgc in the title and more people will look at it,and you onder why people do it on ebay.Heres your proof! |
#112
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: sagard
"Yes. And I submitted the 1887 N172 Kelly, the 1935 National Chicle Nagurski and the T206 Uzit Cobb myself. Can you say the same for all of your expensive PSA graded cards? Didn't think so." |
#113
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Doesn't that mean flawless, with ZERO flaws? |
#114
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
Dunno, could it be the fact that pop report for the PSA 8 Ferrarro says there is one ONE? <sarcasm off> |
#115
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
If 75/25 centering on the back gets you GEM MINT status, then I really do have no respect for the grading standards at PSA. GEM MINt should mean GEM MINT, as in NO FLAWS!!! |
#116
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
Of course the price reflects the low population. That is a tough card, along with the Shannon, McDaniel and a handful of others. But a question was how do people justify sending in non-high # population commons. The answer is sending in low population commons. Of course any card with a vast supply in a particular grade will be tough to turn a profit on. Even high population star cards can be had for cheap. You just have to be wise in your submissions. I understand the question though as many of you collect pre-war cards. Based on your perspective, 1950's cards are considered new and plentiful. |
#117
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
It's published right there in PSA's standards. So if that's the reason you don't use PSA, great. That's your right. I could make the same argument about why an OC card like the Ferraro was given a 96 from SGC? The card is clearly OC top to bottom and does not deserve to be considered mint. Yet SGC's published standard is 60-40 or better for SGC 96. I would rather buy a card that is 75-25 vs a 75-25 published standard as opposed to a card that is 65-35 vs a 60-40 published standard. |
#118
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
in any holder and I'll pay 10x book for it. I can say that because it's impossible. There's no such thing as a flawless card. Not even the 2003 1 of 1 atomic NASA titanium refractors are perfect. So if a PSA 10 or SGC 98 has to be perfect, then there would never be a 10 or 98 graded. |
#119
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
sagard, |
#120
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
I think the question about your PSA cards was directed toward why it is you have not submitted them to SGC for reholdering/regrading. If SGC cards command similar or higher prices, and PSA's integrity is slipping more and more, one might ask why you have not made the switch. I believe that to be alegitimate question. |
#121
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Albie O'Hanian
Jay-Somebody wanted to know how it could be justified sending in commons for grading. I showed a few examples. There are countless more examples but why waste space? There are currently 20 collectors on the PSA set registry trying to complete the 1968 topps set-and 19 of them have over 20% complete. That is enough people bidding and competing for PSA commons from this year to justify sending card in to be graded. |
#122
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
I refuse to engage in personal attacks and had ignored your constant personal attacks on virtually every member before you got kicked off of the CU boards. If decide to discuss cards and not the people (who you don't know) posting the message, I'll be glad to reply to you. Otherwise, I will ignore your replies. It is apparent from other posts here that forum members want to see more inputs from PSA collectors. So why try and drive them all away with personal attacks??? |
#123
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
PSAKid, which worries you more? The fact that many of the PSA cards in your personal collection may be fraudulent or the fact that many of your nonfraudulent PSA cards may be overgraded and a by-product of PSA's long-standing system of dealer favoritism? |
#124
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
Todd, |
#125
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: runscott
But what I think perplexes people is when they see commons sell for $5 in a PSA holder and we know it cost more than that to slab it. The answer is probably that the original owner of the commons sent a bunch of them in, banking on 1 or 2 to get high grades and off-set the cost of slabbing all the others - the $5 cards you see on ebay are simply the chaff. |
#126
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: David Williams
I'm going to be ROFLMAO when the latest SGC news comes out. All this high and mighty talk and slamming of PSA will slow down... |
#127
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: runscott
As often as PSA'ers complain about PSA-bashing, it really sounds like you all just don't like people discussing PSA's problems (which happen to be current news, BTW) - sorry, once they clean up their act there will be nothing to complain about, meanwhile.... |
#128
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Albie O'Hanian
runscott-Yes, I agree with your statement. I think most of the commons that grade less than 8 were either part of big submissions where dealers have already made their money or they simply thought the card would grade higher. |
#129
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
I own over 2000 PSA graded cards and most were pregraded and submitted by me. I've never bought a card from WIWAG and I own zero of the newer junk (all pre 1976). Sure some cards I feel are overgraded while others I feel are undergraded but I'm satisfied with their performance overall. I would like to see more consistancy from grader to grader. Perhaps SGC does a better job at that but that may not be the case if they didn't have the luxary of a single grader reviewing every vintage card passing through the door. |
#130
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
I submit commons in bulk to PSA. As an example, I'll submit 100 1974 commons. 25-30 will come back 9's and a few will come back 7's or less due to print flaws or a light surface wrinkle I may have missed. The rest come out 8's. I'll lose money on the NM and worse cards and a small % of the 8's (high population cards). Most of the 8's I'll break even on. The 9's is where the money is. Getting one 9 that sells for $75 and cost me <$10 will cover most of the losses. The rest of the 9's will all sell for above $10 and that's where the profit is. And some of the 8's, especially Cubs, Mets, Yankees, etc will sell for premiums. So the PSA 7 and under cards are basically throw aways. |
#131
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: marty
I recently purchased a group of cards. I have an idea how to tell the era of PSA graded, but I do not know how to tell the era of SGC graded. I have attached a scan of the back of the label also. There are other cards that that have serial numbers that are close. |
#132
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
This turns out to be no big deal (from a holder reliability standpoint) and that no other grading companies experience this. If there's an easy way to tell if the holders have been tampered with, then the graded card market should remain strong and viable. If it turns out the sonically sealed holders are not secure, we're all in trouble. |
#133
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: David Williams
Don't worry, you should hear about it in 2-3 weeks... |
#134
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
PSAKid, |
#135
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
PSAkid, |
#136
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
<< If it turns out the sonically sealed holders are not secure, we're all in trouble. >> |
#137
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
...would that be before or after the time period during which PSA cards will be worth diddly-squat? |
#138
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
Marty, |
#139
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
David, |
#140
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: PSAKID
As long as everyone buys the card and not the holder, they won't have problems. I'm not worried about what I've sold. I'll put those cards up to scrutiny of any other grader at PSA or any other grading company. And yes, I've tracked every sale I've ever made. I know who purchased the card, when they purchased it, what they paid for it and what card they purchased. I'm confident many of those cards would bump up a half grade in SGC holders since I'm conservative in what I submit in order to eliminate the borderline 8's. |
#141
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
PSAKid, |
#142
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: marty
MW |
#143
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: David Williams
I'm not sure why my last post was deleted - just look at the IP numbers, I was not posting anonymously. |
#144
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
This doesn't have to do with the fifth horse in the fourth race at Canterbury Downs, does it? Now that's information I could really use! |
#145
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
<< MW, I'm also curious - I've seen you promote BVG cards - do you approve of their standards? >> |
#146
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: jay behrens
David, instead of alluding to a supposed SGC scandal, how about telling us what you know so that in 2-3 weeks when this news is supposedly going to break, we can look back and go, WOW!!! He was right. Or, look back and laugh. |
#147
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: MW
Marty, |
#148
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: Marc S.
Any card graded by SGC that does not have the split grade on it (e.g. your fletcher card is not SGC 80/6) was potentially graded/overseen by Joe Merkle -- who has had a very dubious reputation in the hobby over some time. In fact, I believe that the first few months of SGC's split-grade was in place while Merkle was still with the company. |
#149
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: David Williams
The split grades were started well after Joe Merkle SGC. The semi-newer labels, with the green border and the SGC website on the top, WERE started a few months before Merkle left. So, the old labels with the "SG" in the background and kinda faded were all graded under Merkle's supervision, the split grades were NOT, and the new labels w/o the split grade may have been. |
#150
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PSA OR SGC?????
Posted By: David Williams
<<David, instead of alluding to a supposed SGC scandal,>> |
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