It may be an old topic, but it still amazes me

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Posted By: David 

that anyone would be stupid enough to bid over $100(!) on what is not only obviously a picture cut out of a book, but not even a nice looking picture. While Libertyforall and NASA are dregs, I've come to the conclusions that the winning bidder deserves what he/she gets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810447094

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Posted By: MW

You said it, Pete. NASA graded cards are nothing but a "hobby accident" waiting to happen.

As far as I'm concerned, eBay should really make a distinction here. "Paper stock cutouts" are not baseball cards and should not be allowed in the pre-1950's baseball card category. From a certain perspective, eBay is unwittingly participating in libertyforall's overt and blatant deception.

Like a charlatan selling a magic strength elixir in an early American gold rush town, libertyforall deserves to be tarred and feathered. Inasmuch as they allow these listings to continue, eBay might as well consider themselves to be that "strongman" planted in the crowd, who proceeds to lose in a feat of strength to the 100-pound, elixir-aided weakling.

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Posted By: petecld

I agree 100%. I've stopped warning people. I'm sure glad ebay is too, they must have gotten tired sending me "keep out" notices. Some were actually appreciative, others said they just liked the piece and one even told me that I just didn't understand the money making potential for this kind of "card".

Oh, I see the money making potential alright. I doubt the buyers are going to make any money if they go to resell their little cut outs.

Sadly, one day the truth will come out and a lot of people will walk away with the wrong impression of the hobby.

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Posted By: Brian Daniels

should be notified when they have the balls some day to actually set up at a big show to grade cards!!!! That would be a sight to behold! My guess is that their booth would be clear on the other side of the floor from SGC* ( where leon will be texas stlye yakin all duded day long )and they will be wearing hockey masks!

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Posted By: Wile E. Coyote

....it's a COPY/Xerox of a picture cut out of a book! That's why he NEVER runs out of his cornucopia of crap!

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Posted By: Brian Hodes

Never did understand why an old reprint was better than a new one either....

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Posted By: leon

Supply and demand....they can't reprint old reprints so the new reprints are easier to find ?? best regards

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Posted By: leon

What I meant was if they reprint an old reprint it will be a new one....hence the low supply of old ones..... (duh)....regards

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Posted By: runscott

...and make it look even older than the old reprint.

...do you need any? BTW, I'm working on creating my first "vintage tobacco pack" reprints. Could you please send me some scans of yours? (lol - really, it's a joke-don't send a hit-man)

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

(or maybe in the first edition, for all I know), there's a turn-of-the-century process that yields blue-on-white prints. So every time i see one of these, I do a double take.

Ruth's too late.

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Posted By: runscott

here's one I really like (it's real!)

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Posted By: David

My guess is that they are original pages from vintage publications. Libertyfory'all (as they call him in Texas) once tried to buy an old By Babe Ruth book from me (inquired about the condition of the pictures inside). And if you can can get you a hold of an old Reach or Spalding baseball guide, they are about 400 pages full of TONS of quality pictures and ads.

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Posted By: runscott

curiously, I found these "cards" stuck to the pages of a 1902 baseball guide.

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Posted By: David

I'm not a book collector, but have had a bunch of 1910s-20s Spalding and Reach Guides, and they are truely incredible publications. Worth every penny of thier high price tag. I had an c. 1890 Spalding Guide that had real woodcuts of the players-- including King Kelly, Monte Ward, Harry Wright, Al Spalidng!

What pains me most is that Libertyforall is, for a few bucks, destroying forever rare and wonderful items. I'm sure bat collectors feel similur when Upper Deck or whomever announces they will be destroying a Ty Cobb bat to make insert cards.

What is interesting is what Libertyforall is doing is essentially the same with the sale of 1800s Harper's Woodcuts, the Harper's Woodcuts being pictures pages removed from a magazine. The sale of Haper's Woodcuts is considered perfectly legitimate, while what Libertyforall is widely reguarded as fraud. While I agree that what Libertyforall is doing is deceptive to the point of being wrong (essentially presenting cutout pages as cards so as to fool the bidder to paying more), the Spalding versus Harper's 'cutouts' shows that a hobby's 'rules and regulations' is as much a product of collectively held subjective feelings than due to actual logic.

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Posted By: David

Julie, it's technically possible to find a cyantotype photograph of Ruth of Joe Jackson. However, I've never seen a cyantoype of a major league player. It was considered a cheaper (though not common) process, to be used for family photos and informal basell photos of kids an the like. Though, as I told Scott, his is one of the few cabinet cards I've seen. They were most likely used on postcards.

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Posted By: runscott

I picked up 1908 and 1913 today. I purchased a beat-to-hell 1902 about a year ago, removed the staples, sold 3 photos out of it, then put the staples back in and stuck it in my library. The Giants photo in the 1902 contained a b&w reproduction of a painting of Matty - I was always curious about the photo that painting came from. Now I know - it's the recently discovered Matty cabinet!

I used the 1902 Spalding page as part of a matted, framed Matty display which included an old news magazine military photo of him, and a t205 card. It's now on a wall where it can be appreciated by many, while as part of a poor-condition coverless guide, it probably would have gathered dust for years. Tough call.

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Posted By: Wile E.Coyote

He's hawked the same 'card' (copy of a picture cut from a book), most probably paper-glued to a piece of blank cardboard, AT LEAST over a dozen times in the past year. MOST of his "catalogued" cards from his "registry of refuse" is offered with the same availability and frequencey. The "big names" anyway. Each piece is ALWAYS the same identical shade of white (from thousands of possible shades that supposedly 75 year old paper can turn in the aging process dependent upon individual storage conditions, from dark Tan to brilliant white and every possible shade between). One Ruth is NEVER darker or lighter than the other offered before it or after it. It's a copying machine or scanner/copier image of his saved "library or file copy" that he clipped from a publication that he makes duplicates of when needed. It's really a moot point anyway because as Matthau said in "Odd Couple",
"Now, it's GARBAGE!".

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Posted By: David

If Libertyforall and NASA are selling and grading photocopied or computer printed counterfeits, it would be a simple process to get them banned.