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#1
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Hey Folks, |
#2
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: David
is that you should send any grading complaints through him. |
#3
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Here to help............for a fee just kidding....I have oft thought, along with others, that an "authentic" grade is what I really want....I can try to decipher the grade on my own... what I have always wanted with EVERY card I sent in was to know that it was not altered.....the grade was just a sideline item as it is subjective....regards |
#4
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: petecld
About your 5 points: |
#5
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: David
I agree that such a service would be useful and welcome. You and many others say SGC is top notch, and I don't have any reason to disagree. I only needled you because didn't once say how cute my dogs were. |
#6
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Anonymous
Sounds good except for the cop out on slabbing altered cards. There is no reason for it if the card is legit. Grading it "authentic- trimmed" or other alteration notes should be no problem since the cards is still authentic, just someone altered it in some way whether by trimming, coloring, restoring, etc. |
#7
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: roy miles
Leon, |
#8
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Your comments are welcomed and valid. I think the cost might be a factor in giving all of the details (not sure though.. as time it takes being a cost)..He seemed pretty adamant about not slabbing altered cards though....I don't think it was a cop out of not looking for added color. He and I did not speak about that specifically. I would think that they black light all cards which would hopefully catch most added color.(I am very amateur in this area)..Not sure what the cost is of grading a comic but I have been interested in comics (mildly) and know exactly what you are speaking about. This thing ain't official yet so there is certainly time to make adjustments. Derek is like management in my company- very open to good ideas that make cents (pun intended) and are feasible. Let the debate continue...... |
#9
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Elliot
I like the idea of grading cards as authentic. In my mind this should also include cards that have been trimmed, color added, paper added, etc. To address some of Derek's concerns perhaps there should be two authentic grades----1) authentic and 2) authentic-altered, without detailing what the alteration is. After all, even with the alteration the card is authentic. |
#10
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
First of all thanks again for sponsoring the board. It is a great forum. I think that when/if SGC slabs a card as authentic they will want it to be 100% authentic ....meaning not tampered with in any way. This is still not a cemented policy so your feedback will be taken into consideration I am sure. As far as him posting I am pretty sure that a lot of folks visit and don't post. To each their own....and I do understand his reasons BUT maybe over time he will post. Not everyone has as much screw off time as me or is as vocal (thank goodness )....and of course |
#11
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Tom
Leon........sorry to be a dunderhead here but what would they be slabbing as 'authentic' if not something trimmed or rebacked or whatever? If it is 100% authentic then it should be qualified to get a grade and not need just the 'authentic' label. It would be deemed authentic because it was slabbed with a grade. |
#12
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: HalleyGator
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#13
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Trevor Hocking
I think this a great topic. I love the idea of getting a card graded (if it's authentic!) weather it's trimmed or altered. Some people still buy trimmed cards for fillers, as long as they know it's authentic. If SGC will not grade an altered card then I don't see the point, I mean isn't the point of sending a card to a "Grading" company, is to have it graded. What I'm trying to say is that if the card is unaltered and authentic then it will be slabbed, so who cares about the grade especially on the rare cards. The way I see it is this, and I know I'm not alone here, I really hate to get an altered card back with no true definition. Sure they say it's altered, but where, how . Maybe they could add some kind of report card with the return of a altered card, or slabb the card with an "Authentic Trimmed" or " Authentic Colored" ect. on the lable. I would feel a little better when I got the card back. At least I'm getting some plastic for my $20. I hate to say it, but from a bussness stand point I don't think that day will ever happen, I mean SGC is only charging $7-$20 a card. I bet that they actually save quite a bit of money by not having to slabb altered cards. I know they only pay a few cents when it come to the slabb itself, but they also don't have to pay the printer and press operator ether, and when you add up all of those penny's and concider they have got to be encasing 100's of thousands of items, and I would say atleast 10% if not more have got to be returned as altered, it adds up to a lot of savings. So if they decide to slabb everything that comes in the door, regardless if it's altered or not, then it will cost them more money in the long run for sure. The same prices they've been getting but insted of returning the card raw, in will have to go through the encasing process. SGC is the best bar-none, but bussness is bussness. "If it ant broke why fix it!" Keep up the great work SGC!!! Just my opinion of course! |
#14
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: petecld
I never thought about what a grade of just "Authentic" REALLY says and how it leaves the buyer with other concerns. |
#15
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Hey Trevor, |
#16
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: scott brockelman
folks, lets face it,the real reason everyone wants "authentic" grading with no number assigned is due to the fact that they so rarely agree with the given grade. you just want to know your t206 ty cobb, etal, is real and untampered with, but not a 30 when you think its an ex card. i am as guilty as the next person, ownership adds 1-2 grades to the card. i hate like hell to send "my" exmt tobacco card in and it come back vg/ex or ex, so most folks would like them to just verify its originality and forget the subjective grading so they may call it what they want, which IS fine, not everybody agrees on a grade on a given card, each has his own parameter's. |
#17
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Elliot
Scott, I respectfully disagree with you with regards to grading altered cards. I think people with cards that are trimmed (for example) want to know that the cards are authentic as much as people with unaltered cards. I think you summarize it quite well in your two contradictory (IMO) statements. The first...99% of this board know the difference in a real card and a dover reprint, and the second....again the principal purpose of this grading standard seems to enable the owner to validate the originality of a card . If 99% of the people know the difference (whether the card has been altered or not) why then do they need to validate the originality of the card, and if they need to validate the orginality of the card, why does it matter whether it has been trimmed or not. |
#18
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Hey Elliot, |
#19
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: HalleyGator
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#20
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
Good points. I don't remember saying I wanted a more accurate POP report but I cetainly might have. Since I believe I have the highest graded Buchner Gold Coin (SGC 92 Kelly) I am happy. Do I think there are others that are not graded that are in better condition? Maybe. Maybe not. I am comfortable knowing that of the ones that ARE graded mine is the highest (as far as I know today anyway)......I think the more I do this the more I buy the card and not the holder though.....the grade is so subjective and like it was mentioned before the POP report is somewhat inaccurate it just makes sense to be careful regardless of the number on the plastic.....I don't think it would devalue our graded cards if the "authentic" grade was adopted either.....again, we should still be looking at the cards and not the holders....just some more rambling thoughts........ |
#21
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Elliot
Leon---I don't think we disagree very much on this subject. We would like to see an authentic grade, AND we would like to see an authentic grade with an altered designation. We also agree that the ultimate decision will be SGC's or any other grading company that decides to bring (or not bring) these options in. I also think we agree that this kind of friendly debate is excellent for fleshing ideas out, and there is no reason for everybody to agree, as long as it's done in a civilized manner. |
#22
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: petecld
Scott, |
#23
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Tom
That the vast majority of people buying these slabs are probably not even members of this board. Plus we all may be aware of cards like those in Lipset's auction (McPherson trimmed caramels) but others might not. So the 'authentic but altered' category COULD/WOULD be of great help to many. In addition, to Halley's point, another column in the grading companies pop reports could identify cards that have been graded but altered which would also help verify/justify the hyping of those 9's and 10's with a truer population of graded cards. Not to say that everyone would run to get the 'authentic but altered' but I've definitely got some that I would want in holders. |
#24
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: leon
If I take a piece of tape off of a card I do not consider it restored or tampered with. Maybe you do. best regards |
#25
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: David
My feeling is that this service will be fairly pricey and not used on run of the mill cards. I think Plasticdog's point about the cards not being able to be graded by the owner if it's in plastic is an excellent one, and that alone should prevent it's widespread use. However, I think there are cases where 'judge to be authentic' without grading is resonable and maybe even desirable. A T206 Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back, where the edges were handcut is a good example. I agree with Plasticdog that some indication of grade would be most desirable ('Vg but handcut' or 'Ex appearance but trimmed on all edges so we can't give grade'), but in this case plain 'Judge to be Authentice' is a respectable alternative. |
#26
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Marc S.
Here is PSA's: |
#27
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: jay behrens
removing tape from a card is going to leave some kind of mark, whether it is loss of paper, adhesive stain, etc. As long as it has not been trimmed or changed from it's original state, then it should graded the same as a card removed from scrap book or that has gum or wax stains. |
#28
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: runscott
... |
#29
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: petecld
Leon, |
#30
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: jay behrens
I knew some smart ass would come up with something else and I am sure there more that would fall into this catagory. |
#31
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: runscott
...using the back of an x-acto knife. Didn't damage the card, but wouldn't this trip the black light as well? |
#32
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: MW
edited |
#33
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: Charlie
I have Proof cards from a sheet I would want to get graded...I know PSA does it and would like SGC to do it as well |
#34
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: David
I hope I didn't sound impolite in my response. While I'm firm in that opinion, I realize and that we can all often have resonable differences of opinion. It is never my intention to sound disrespectful. |
#35
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here is the deal with SGC "authentic"
Posted By: David
That text applies to grading, which I'm not talking about. Further, that so many people on this board complain about PSA's variances in grades given and, at times, the questionable authenticity of entombed cards, might suggest that their grading procedures should not be used as a gold standard to be applied to authentication. |
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