New Hobby Term Just Dropped: “Self-Bidding” - Net54baseball.com Forums
  NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
 Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
 Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
 Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions
Reload this Page New Hobby Term Just Dropped: “Self-Bidding”
Register NEW Chat! Who's Chatting FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-19-2025, 12:06 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,449
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
I'll never understand why the concept is so confusing. The auction law is fairly straightforward:

§ 2-328. Sale by Auction.

(4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale.


So there you have it, if in clause 21 of their terms and conditions Auction House X reserves the right for consignors to bid on their own items it is perfectly legal.

If they don't reserve that right and it happens anyway, and by some miracle the winning bidder, who got bid up, finds out, the sum total of their redress is they can cancel their bid or require the auction to sell them the item at the level the item would've achieved without the shill bidding.

I find allowing consignors to bid on their own items unethical, despite it's legality, and we have a policy against it. I'm sure some consignor has used a buddy to bid something up, but if we catch you (and we have) those bids are canceled and that's your last auction with us.
Good policy, Scott...

Wish more auctions would follow suit with you, LOTG, CIA and the like.
__________________
Be sure to subscribe to my YouTube Channel, The Stuff Of Greatness. New videos are uploaded every week...

https://www.youtube.com/@tsogreatness/videos
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-19-2025, 02:26 PM
slightlyrounded slightlyrounded is offline
A@ron V@!llan©️our⍑
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Beautiful BC
Posts: 179
Default
My (super unpopular) opinion is shilling should always just be considered fair and legal and explicitly allowed in all auction platform terms of service. If everyone knows the rules of engagement then we can deal with it and adjust our buying strategies and price thresholds accordingly. Shilling is obviously endemic to the hobby and this won't change anytime soon; why pretend that it can or will be prevented? Edit - to be clear, I believe that a winning 'shilled' bid should always require payment/fees/taxes/shipping/re-insertion fees, even if the buyer and seller are the same party.

A seller bidding to bring a price higher functions the same as buyers having a hidden 'max reserve bid' and last-minute sniping (both designed to depress the price). Early on Ebay decided to forbid shilling while programmatically favouring the buyer's side; this was likely because it still wanted to charge for failed auctions when seller's reserves are set.
Last edited by slightlyrounded; 11-19-2025 at 02:31 PM. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-19-2025, 03:13 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,296
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyrounded View Post
My (super unpopular) opinion is shilling should always just be considered fair and legal and explicitly allowed in all auction platform terms of service. If everyone knows the rules of engagement then we can deal with it and adjust our buying strategies and price thresholds accordingly. Shilling is obviously endemic to the hobby and this won't change anytime soon; why pretend that it can or will be prevented? Edit - to be clear, I believe that a winning 'shilled' bid should always require payment/fees/taxes/shipping/re-insertion fees, even if the buyer and seller are the same party.

A seller bidding to bring a price higher functions the same as buyers having a hidden 'max reserve bid' and last-minute sniping (both designed to depress the price). Early on Ebay decided to forbid shilling while programmatically favouring the buyer's side; this was likely because it still wanted to charge for failed auctions when seller's reserves are set.
I understand the sentiment, but nobody is stopping you from treating every auction that way now, so I'm not sure what the point would be in changing the law.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!

and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-19-2025, 03:24 PM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,091
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyrounded View Post
My (super unpopular) opinion is shilling should always just be considered fair and legal and explicitly allowed in all auction platform terms of service. If everyone knows the rules of engagement then we can deal with it and adjust our buying strategies and price thresholds accordingly. Shilling is obviously endemic to the hobby and this won't change anytime soon; why pretend that it can or will be prevented? Edit - to be clear, I believe that a winning 'shilled' bid should always require payment/fees/taxes/shipping/re-insertion fees, even if the buyer and seller are the same party.

A seller bidding to bring a price higher functions the same as buyers having a hidden 'max reserve bid' and last-minute sniping (both designed to depress the price). Early on Ebay decided to forbid shilling while programmatically favouring the buyer's side; this was likely because it still wanted to charge for failed auctions when seller's reserves are set.
The bigger issue is when the auction house knows the ceiling bids of the leading bidder on lots and bids up the price until the rung below the high bid. That's one of the reasons why Bill Mastro and Doug Allen went to jail.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-19-2025, 03:34 PM
slightlyrounded slightlyrounded is offline
A@ron V@!llan©️our⍑
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Beautiful BC
Posts: 179
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
The bigger issue is when the auction house knows the ceiling bids of the leading bidder on lots and bids up the price until the rung below the high bid. That's one of the reasons why Bill Mastro and Doug Allen went to jail.
Yes, that's 'straight to jail do not pass go' behaviour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
I understand the sentiment, but nobody is stopping you from treating every auction that way now, so I'm not sure what the point would be in changing the law.
I do assume every auction platform is shilling or looking the other way. Not saying the 'law' should be changed but suggesting it should be industry standard to allow shilling in terms and conditions.
Last edited by slightlyrounded; 11-19-2025 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-19-2025, 04:18 PM
4815162342's Avatar
4815162342 4815162342 is offline
Daryl
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,838
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyrounded View Post
I do assume every auction platform is shilling or looking the other way. Not saying the 'law' should be changed but suggesting it should be industry standard to allow shilling in terms and conditions.
No.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-19-2025, 05:49 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,296
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyrounded View Post
Yes, that's 'straight to jail do not pass go' behaviour



I do assume every auction platform is shilling or looking the other way. Not saying the 'law' should be changed but suggesting it should be industry standard to allow shilling in terms and conditions.
Sorry I'm not going to change my standards to some lowest common denominator.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!

and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-19-2025, 07:13 PM
parkplace33 parkplace33 is offline
Drew W@i$e
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,657
Default
What is the true price of cards? Cause I can tell you I ain’t getting ah prices when I sell privately.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-19-2025, 07:26 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,442
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
What is the true price of cards? Cause I can tell you I ain’t getting ah prices when I sell privately.
It’s somewhere in between maybe or maybe it’s not…honestly I have no idea….all I’ll say is the seller is in the driver seat. So many auctions to choose from that allow the stuff talked about in this thread…idk it’s almost like get the price you want if you use us. Idk 🤷*♂️
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM
raulus raulus is online now
Nicol0 Pin.oli
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 3,015
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkplace33 View Post
What is the true price of cards? Cause I can tell you I ain�t getting ah prices when I sell privately.
Drew - what are you selling that you're not getting the same prices?

Typically I'm getting in the same ballpark for most of my stuff. However, usually I have to be patient to find the right buyer.
__________________
Trying to wrap up my master mays set, with just a few left:

1968 American Oil left side
1971 Bazooka numbered complete panel
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-19-2025, 07:45 PM
Snapolit1's Avatar
Snapolit1 Snapolit1 is offline
Ste.ve Na.polit.ano
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,500
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Sorry I'm not going to change my standards to some lowest common denominator.
Lowering standards for the lowest common denominator. Please. . . .political posts are banned. . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-20-2025, 09:50 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 34,234
Default
It's not only the immediate auction, it's the down the road effect on price because the auction then gets reported and serves as the basis for comps. And I doubt most AHs or ebay sellers tell VCP etc. when a sale doesn't go through.
__________________
Four phrases I nave coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-20-2025, 10:04 AM
toppcat's Avatar
toppcat toppcat is offline
Dave.Horn.ish
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,956
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Lowering standards for the lowest common denominator. Please. . . .political posts are banned. . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-19-2025, 07:16 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
Doug Goodman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the road again...
Posts: 5,451
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlyrounded View Post
My (super unpopular) opinion is shilling should always just be considered fair and legal and explicitly allowed in all auction platform terms of service.
IF that were to be the case, then bid history information should be allowed (ebay style, specifics hidden, but individuals differentiated) to help spot shady stuff.

Bid histories should be viewable already, but...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-19-2025, 07:36 PM
slightlyrounded slightlyrounded is offline
A@ron V@!llan©️our⍑
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Beautiful BC
Posts: 179
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug.goodman View Post
IF that were to be the case, then bid history information should be allowed (ebay style, specifics hidden, but individuals differentiated) to help spot shady stuff.

Bid histories should be viewable already, but...
Agreed and/or even identify sellers bids explicitly.
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hobby Resilience - Long Term Dead-Ball-Hitter Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 72 02-26-2022 11:53 AM
When was the term "Rookie Card" introduced into the Hobby ? insidethewrapper Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 22 12-26-2019 07:52 AM
Is snipe bidding killing the hobby? cfhofer Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 104 07-29-2015 11:19 PM
Sad News -- Long term Dallas hobby people Rich Klein Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 04-14-2014 03:21 PM
The Term Pre War Card Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 04-22-2006 11:50 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 PM.

RSS - Contact Us - Home - Archive - Top

ebay GSB