R316 Kashin set likely issued at earliest in July 1929

brianp-beme · #1 11-11-2025, 06:10 PM

For fun (as classified by me) I went through the players in the R316 Kashin set to see if its widely identified year of issue is 1929. After plowing through the 101 players of the set, I came to the following conclusion:

Yes, R316 Kashin cards were most likely first issued in 1929.

So nothing too earthshattering, but I did find out some interesting things along my research journey. First off, I would like to thank the Kashin Publication folks for listing the player's team on each card...that helped me out a lot. And a checklist was provided on the back of each box of 25 these were sold in. Also I would like to point out, as far as I know, no team changes were made throughout the production of these cards. There are 101 cards in the set. 4 boxes of 25 players were issued in four different color boxes. What makes this a set of 101 instead of 100, you may wonder?. Well, Babe Ruth was eventually added to every box of 25. In adding Ruth, one player originally included in each box (Bump Hadley - Orange, Jesse Haines - Blue, Socks Seibold -Canary, and Phil Todt - Coral) were removed, thus accounting for the 4 short prints.

As far as I can figure, at least three different box variations exist. I have included a picture below of four boxes, the image which I found on here by a noted collector, that depicts two of these back box list variations. The one box not shown is the one that does not include the Babe on any of the lists. Kashin then decided to bump Bump Hadley from the Orange box to add in Ruth (as is seen in the 'Orange' listing on the Blue box shown). At some point they decided everyone wanted Babe Ruth, so they knocked off the other 3 players I mention from each color box, as can be seen on the other 3 examples in the below image.

r316kashinboxes.jpg

I am guessing that not only is Ruth at least 3 to 4 times more common than any other player, but that the other players of the Orange box (besides the bumped Hadley) are likely to be somewhat more common than the rest, because there was a period where folks were likely seeking out Ruth in the Orange box during that intermediate period, before Kashin decided to go Ruth ape crazy.

And now back to the likely time of issue...what did I find out when researching the player's careers?

Let's start with three players who began their MLB careers in 1929. Dale Alexander, Roy Johnson, and Ad Liska all played their first MLB games within three days of each other in mid-April of 1929. To me it seems like these players would only have been included in this set after they had seen a certain amount of service (and success) with their respective teams. Which is all fine and good, but not entirely conclusive. Another player in the set, Jimmy Welsh, helps nail down the earliest issue date to late June 1929 or after, as he was traded from the Giants to the Boston Braves (the team designated on his card) on June 14th, 1929. I am forced to admit that Welsh did play for the Braves from 1925 to 1927, and was traded to the Giants in January 1928, the team that he performed for in 1928. Also, while researching I did note that Kashin made a team designation mistake on the Bill Regan card, identifying him as a Reds player (a team he never played for), instead of the correct Red Sox designation. But because of the three 1929 rookie players mentioned above, I believe the Welsh card indicates a mid-1929 issue date at the earliest.

Nailing down the length of the printing run of these is indeed less certain, because of the three box variations mentioned above, would likely suggest that production and distribution carried over into 1930. The lack of team changes makes dating everything less clear, but it should be noted that as early as February 5th, 1930, one player (Doug McWeeny) had been traded away from the team designated on his card, and ten others switched teams between April and June of 1930.

So no real revisions to the publication year timeline of this set, but still some additional information to ponder during the 15 minutes a day R316 Kashin pondering allotment you have been granted by the Prewar overlords that control us.

Brian

Casey2296 · #2 11-11-2025, 07:17 PM

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Very nice research Brian, love the Kashin set, great way to own a relatively affordable Ruth also.
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ValKehl · #3 11-11-2025, 07:47 PM

Godd stuff, Brian. Do I correctly assume that you will now do comprehensive research on the 1929 Kashin Premium Photos and report you findings on this forum?

brianp-beme · #4 11-11-2025, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Godd stuff, Brian. Do I correctly assume that you will now do comprehensive research on the 1929 Kashin Premium Photos and report you findings on this forum?

Thanks Phil, and unfortunately Val those 5 x 7 Kashin premiums are just too large for my brain to get my fingers to research it. Nice Rice though.

Brian

Cozumeleno · #5 11-12-2025, 12:04 PM

Great stuff, Brian --

I've been collecting the Kashins with the Anthracite Baking Overprint. They added their stamps and starting running a promotion with them in 1932 (though I believe the 1929 date for the set's creation is likely correct). Not trying to hijack your thread but if anyone knows of any more of these, please let me know. These are the only five I have seen.

brianp-beme · #6 11-12-2025, 01:54 PM

Thanks Anson, and hijack away! We might as well get more involved. Those are great examples of the Antracite Baking overprint, which I think are fairly rare and only remember seeing once before, probably when you showed them. It is interesting that one of the R316 you posted has a "Made in USA" on the front. I possibly remember reading an article you had on the prewarcards site that you theorized (if I remember correctly) that the ones with the less commonly seen "Made in U.S.A." designation were likely a Canadian issue. Or then again I might be confusing this with the R314 group of sets.

Anywho, here are some more examples from the great R316 Kashin set for those who R-Curious.

Brian

JJ McGraw · #7 11-12-2025, 03:28 PM

Great Research!!!!
This is my first Kashin, but hopefully won�t be my last . Love everything about the card.

Cozumeleno · #8 11-12-2025, 07:57 PM

Thanks, Brian -- you are indeed right. I wrote about those several years ago and the possible link to a set called Brody Baseball Stars, which we don't really know what they are.

Given the link between the envelopes and boxes used for them with the movie stars parallel set to the Kashin baseball photos, I'm fairly certain there's a tie.

This was the article you're referring to.

https://prewarcards.com/2018/10/22/r...ist-envelopes/

JackR · #9 11-12-2025, 09:50 PM

Great information. I second the earlier request for further research on what PSA calls 5x7 �Photos� and SGC calls �Premiums.� They�re a bit bigger and (to me) higher quality�

Leon · #10 11-13-2025, 09:15 AM

+1 They are much higher quality..

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackR

Great information. I second the earlier request for further research on what PSA calls 5x7 �Photos� and SGC calls �Premiums.� They�re a bit bigger and (to me) higher quality�

brianp-beme · #11 11-13-2025, 01:39 PM

The 5 x7 versions of these photos are indeed super sharp...they remind me of a larger version of the quality photos seen in the W503 set. But perhaps even more stunning because of their larger size. I would like to do a confirmation of the dating on these as well, but in comparison to the regular, smaller sized R316 Kashin cards, they are substantially less common.

Tracking down all the images of these is probably a difficult or even currently an impossible task. Heritage Auctions had an incredible grouping of these in a February 2024 auction, with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig offered individually, and 99 in a group lot:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../50068-80150.s

Unfortunately they did researchers no favors by only depicting the 12 graded cards in the lot. They did provide the last name of the players included in the lot. First off, the title of the lot indicates that it contains 99 of the 101 in the set. If you count the players included, they only list 98. There is one duplicate, Fred Maguire, so it is possible that they inaccurately included this in the 99 amount. I believe they instead left one name off, because of the following information, starting off with the following 9 players listed that are not part of the regular R316 Kashin set:

Benge
Bricknell
Cochrane
Lind
McNeely
Metzler
Mitchell
Morgan
Myer

There is also listed a 10th player unknown in the R316 Kashin set, a "O'Hurst", but I believe this was an erroneous misspelling in the lot description, as there is a card of player Frank "Hurst" in the R316 Kashin set. Heritage did fortunately at least provide an image of the Mickey Cochrane card, one of 9 unknown, as is seen below:

r316kashin5x7cochrane.jpg

In conjunction with the above 9 unknown, there are 10 players in the R316 Kashin set that are not present in the Heritage lot:

Del Bisonette
Hank DeBerry
Charles Dressen
Howard Ehmke
Lefty Grove
Harvey Hendrick
Babe Herman
Shanty Hogan
Dazzy Vance
Jimmy Welsh

The fact that there are 9 unknown, and 10 not included, makes me believe Heritage left one player out in their lot description. Also interesting is that Jimmy Walsh was the one player in my original post that pushed the R316 Kashin issue date to July of 1929 at the earliest. Perhaps this could indicate an earlier issue date for these 5 x 7's...

As far as dating these 5 x 7 versions, I would never date any of them, even if they do look so sharp. But seriously, I will have to at some later date try to track as many of the 5 x 7 images down to see if there are any team designation differences, and try to figure out the identities of the 9 unknown in R316 Kashin 5 x 7's, noting the teams they played for a couple years before, during, and a couple of years after 1929.

Brian

nolemmings · #12 11-13-2025, 02:24 PM

Brian, there is a Grove Kashin photo premium:

I have scans of 101 different of the photo premiums, and I'm pretty sure I checked for team changes some time ago and found none, but I suppose I can check again.

brianp-beme · #13 11-13-2025, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Brian, there is a Grove Kashin photo premium:

I have scans of 101 different of the photo premiums, and I'm pretty sure I checked for team changes some time ago and found none, but I suppose I can check again.

Nice T., looks like someone has been paying attention to these premiums...pretty impressive. If you were at some point post the scans of any that are on either of my two lists above, that would be very appreciated as well. No hurry, just as long as you are able to do so before the end of this decade.

Brian

nolemmings · #14 11-13-2025, 11:28 PM

I was just luckly-- right place right time. Here are the first nine you listed:

and Cochrane again:

brianp-beme · #15 11-14-2025, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I was just luckly-- right place right time. Here are the first nine you listed:

Nice! And it's not even the end of the decade yet! Thanks to you, I was presented with the opportunity to check out the records of those players (by the way, Bricknell, as listed in the Heritage Auction lot description, is actually Fred Brickell). Nothing stands out as being out of line with the player selection and team designation...each player was playing the whole 1929 season for the team designation on the card, and most played for that same team for the 1928 season and at least halfway through the 1930 season. Buddy Myer is the closest to being relevant in this dating discussion, as he was traded to the Senators, the team designation on his card, on December 15, 1928. But he doesn't move the needle any.

With the Lefty Grove card, we now could create a complete (as far as we know) 101 card checklist for these R316 5 x 7's. And probably we could be safe to describe this set as being first issued in 1929 (and likely only 1929, as there are so few overall examples).

Thanks again...Brian

Leon · #16 11-17-2025, 06:51 PM

Nice cards, Todd.

This one from my first collection. I don't own it any longer. Wish I did.
They are so sharp.

HexsHeroes · #17 11-18-2025, 02:26 PM

.
Purchased attached to black photo album page, along with
attached cuts of Bob Fothergill, Bobby Veach, and one other.

Pretty cool in that card has been boldly signed by Harry Rice.

brianp-beme · #18 11-18-2025, 06:23 PM

Nice other Rice. Too bad Zack didn't last another couple of years in the majors as then we could have possibly had some Wheat in the set. Here's a couple of more because the cool R316 Kashin issue needs a little more exposure.

It is fun that Goose Goslin makes a guest appearance at the pit of Sad Sam Jones's despair.

Brian

JJ McGraw · #19 11-19-2025, 10:25 AM

These three just arrived�.2 Braves and a Giant!
Backs aren�t perfect , but fronts display well. Really trying to just do Braves, Giants and Browns at this point.

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