1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth in Heritage

Brent G. · #1 10-25-2025, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

Obi-Wan voice:
"These aren't the cards you are looking for"

This is one of the dumbest things in all of collecting � huge value placed on the card being #1 in the set. Is there anything comparable in sports collecting?

raulus · #2 10-25-2025, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent G.

This is one of the dumbest things in all of collecting � huge value placed on the card being #1 in the set. Is there anything comparable in sports collecting?

Often #1 ends up at the top of the pile, so can struggle with condition issues.

66T #1 Mays in high grades tends to sell for a premium, and this is likely a factor. Maybe not quite the same, but in the same direction?

Exhibitman · #3 10-26-2025, 05:44 AM

A few things re the Star Wars card. I would never (could never) pay that kind of money for that card, but I can understand why someone with extreme wealth would.

1. I've been putting together a high grade raw set of 1977 Star Wars first series for a few years. I'm still a few short. The #1 card is a true condition rarity. The card was on the edge of the sheet. Besides the full bleed blue borders that are prone to both corner wear and print boogers, and the usual Topps "I don't give a s**t" overall quality control, the border placement effectively means that the card is off-center L-R 95% of the time. There is a big premium on any centered #1, even in a 7 or 8 slab. It is so bad that one of the few markedly o/c cards in my set is the #1 because I won't ante up into three figures just for better centering.

2. The first series is one of the most iconic NS sets of the latter half of the 20th century. Star Wars was such a phenomenon in 1977, if you weren't there, you cannot really comprehend it. Star Wars literally was that summer; as close to a monoculture as anything ever was. I saw it multiple times, as did my friends, and we struggled to even get into the theater for the first month or so. The collectibles were everywhere; it was the first truly epic merch effort for a film. It had so much cultural staying power that the sequel was mobbed, too; us 12-year olds in 1977 were 15 in 1980 and stil went crazy for Empire. I camped out with friends at the Avco in Westwood to eventually see Empire on the first day of release, late in the afternoon. I would probably have done the same with Jedi but I got to see it in a special members screening via my father's job, at the Academy's theater in Beverly Hills. That was so much fun. At one point I looked behind me and who was sitting there? Shaft. Damn straight. Richard Roundtree. I digress to name drop...my point is that for an entire cohort of Gen X kids (who are now middle aged men with money) Star Wars was the cultural touchstone of their tween/teen lives and for the card collectors of my generation, it was the 1977 Topps cards.

3. The 1977 set series 1 is the seminal set for collectors of Star Wars cards who weren't there in 1977 but who are still ardent fans. The franchise has been carefully grown ever since, Jar Jar Binks notwithstanding. Films, TV, now a Disney 'land'. It has genuine cultural cross-appeal and staying power.

I happen to be a hardcore Star Trek (TOS) collector/fan rather than a Star Wars collector/fan but I totally get it.

Brent G. · #4 10-26-2025, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

A few things re the Star Wars card. I would never (could never) pay that kind of money for that card, but I can understand why someone with extreme wealth would.

1. I've been putting together a high grade raw set of 1977 Star Wars first series for a few years. I'm still a few short. The #1 card is a true condition rarity. The card was on the edge of the sheet. Besides the full bleed blue borders that are prone to both corner wear and print boogers, and the usual Topps "I don't give a s**t" overall quality control, the border placement effectively means that the card is off-center L-R 95% of the time. There is a big premium on any centered #1, even in a 7 or 8 slab. It is so bad that one of the few markedly o/c cards in my set is the #1 because I won't ante up into three figures just for better centering.

2. The first series is one of the most iconic NS sets of the latter half of the 20th century. Star Wars was such a phenomenon in 1977, if you weren't there, you cannot really comprehend it. Star Wars literally was that summer; as close to a monoculture as anything ever was. I saw it multiple times, as did my friends, and we struggled to even get into the theater for the first month or so. The collectibles were everywhere; it was the first truly epic merch effort for a film. It had so much cultural staying power that the sequel was mobbed, too; us 12-year olds in 1977 were 15 in 1980 and stil went crazy for Empire. I camped out with friends at the Avco in Westwood to eventually see Empire on the first day of release, late in the afternoon. I would probably have done the same with Jedi but I got to see it in a special members screening via my father's job, at the Academy's theater in Beverly Hills. That was so much fun. At one point I looked behind me and who was sitting there? Shaft. Damn straight. Richard Roundtree. I digress to name drop...my point is that for an entire cohort of Gen X kids (who are now middle aged men with money) Star Wars was the cultural touchstone of their tween/teen lives and for the card collectors of my generation, it was the 1977 Topps cards.

3. The franchise has been carefully grown ever since, Jar Jar Binks notwithstanding. Films, TV, now a Disney 'land'. It has genuine cultural cross-appeal and staying power and the 1977 set series 1 is the seminal set for collectors of Star Wars cards who weren't there in 1977 but who are still ardent fans.

I happen to be a hardcore Star Trek (TOS) fan rather than a Star Wars fan but I totally get it.

Thanks for the education! It had a huge impact on me as a 3-year-old in �77 and Empire is my favorite movie, but as you can see from this section of my collection, I�ve always been a Solo guy, so I have no use for that #1:-)

Aquarian Sports Cards · #5 10-26-2025, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent G.

This is one of the dumbest things in all of collecting — huge value placed on the card being #1 in the set. Is there anything comparable in sports collecting?

It's not just the #1 factoring in here. The blue borders make high grades tough and the card is rarely centered well enough for a 9 or 10. Finally it's Luke Skywalker's (or Mark Hamil's) "Rookie" card. Whether that concept makes any sense has been discussed before, but there are many actors and historical figures in non-sports who have seen their first card appearance skyrocket over the last 10 years including Mickey Mouse, Einstein etc.

EDIT: Should've kept reading. Adam covered most of this.

Brent G. · #6 10-26-2025, 07:38 AM

From Babe Ruth to Luke Skywalker � you never know where a thread�s gonna go!

Rhotchkiss · #7 10-26-2025, 08:33 AM

To tie the two themes together - The Luke Skywalker sold for 12x less than the consignor/owner of the BN Ruth LOST�. Yikes!

Peter_Spaeth · #8 10-26-2025, 10:02 AM

A whole lotta 10s would not get a 10 again were one to crack out and resubmit, whether deserving or not. This is the world of the flip being the commodity.

BioCRN · #9 10-26-2025, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A whole lotta 10s would not get a 10 again were one to crack out and resubmit, whether deserving or not. This is the world of the flip being the commodity.

I get the general consensus on grading yesterday vs grading today, but in this thread the recently graded Ruth is a strongly questionable "3" with the 2 major creases, the nearly non-existent corners, and the major edge damage (front and back).

Someone else posted an oldschool graded SGC "3" of the exact card in this thread that blows away the modern graded one.

It's a casual consensus that oldschool grading is more lenient than modern grading, but it's still far from being something you can take for granted.

Most of the cards I'm still out there hunting are mostly commons, even if some are rare, and I've passed on more than a few in PSA/SGC 2-4 condition graded modern because they look like ass compared to the number slapped on the slab. That's even taking in account the differences in grading for lower-graded stuff between the two companies (such as marks on a card can still get a SGC 2 - 2.5).

Peter_Spaeth · #10 10-26-2025, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN

I get the general consensus on grading yesterday vs grading today, but in this thread the recently graded Ruth is a strongly questionable "3" with the 2 major creases, the nearly non-existent corners, and the major edge damage (front and back).

Someone else posted an oldschool graded SGC "3" of the exact card in this thread that blows away the modern graded one.

It's a casual consensus that oldschool grading is more lenient than modern grading, but it's still far from being something you can take for granted.

Most of the cards I'm still out there hunting are mostly commons, even if some are rare, and I've passed on more than a few in PSA/SGC 2-4 condition graded modern because they look like ass compared to the number slapped on the slab. That's even taking in account the differences in grading for lower-graded stuff between the two companies (such as marks on a card can still get a SGC 2 - 2.5).

It's not just old vs new grading. Buy 100 PSA 10s at random off ebay, they can all be new grades even, crack and resubmit, how many 10s do you think you will get? Better yet, buy them from 4SC.

gunboat82 · #11 10-26-2025, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

To tie the two themes together - The Luke Skywalker sold for 12x less than the consignor/owner of the BN Ruth LOST�. Yikes!

Following up on the question above, why are we so certain that the consignor actually realized that loss? You deal in rarified air and I don't, so I simply don't know. Are auctions for cards this big arm's-length transactions the same way that bids for smaller lots are, or is it a tight circle where the parties could have some kind of arrangement where the consignor takes less of a hit?

I'm just wondering about cards owned by platforms like cllct, where ownership is fractional and shrouded in secrecy. It seems like it would be easy for a proxy to step in and bid on the Ruth if it looked like the hammer price was too low. Would Heritage have any way of knowing? Would they even care?

Rhotchkiss · #12 10-26-2025, 11:48 AM

Mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don’t know the seller of the BN Ruth or the facts of this consignment, but I assume it’s a real sale; indeed, if I was the buyer, I would insist it!!

Here is what I think - I think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

puckpaul · #13 10-26-2025, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhotchkiss

mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don�t know the seller of the bn ruth or the facts of this consignment, but i assume it�s a real sale; indeed, if i was the buyer, i would insist it!!

Here is what i think - i think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

yes

Lorewalker · #14 10-26-2025, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don�t know the seller of the BN Ruth or the facts of this consignment, but I assume it�s a real sale; indeed, if I was the buyer, I would insist it!!

Here is what I think - I think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

Agree with most of this here but I think we all know that a consignor and the consignment of a multi-million dollar card or collection is going to be handled and treated entirely differently than a consignor and the consignment of a $1500 card or collection.

As for this Heritage sale, someone from Heritage did post earlier in this thread that the card has no reserve and would be sold but if you read Heritages' rules, they and the consignor can bid on their own consignments.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 10-26-2025, 11:51 AM

Heritage could have bid itself too, according to its rules. Not saying that happened, I have no idea, although there are people here with inside knowledge who likely do know who the consignor was and whether someone actually won it (and who).

parkplace33 · #16 10-26-2025, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Heritage could have bid itself too, according to its rules. Not saying that happened, I have no idea, although there are people here with inside knowledge who likely do know who the consignor was and whether someone actually won it (and who).

100 percent. This hobby is small and lives gossip. People could talk if they really want to� or maybe they don�t?

Either way, we will talk again about this when the Ruth comes up for sale again in a year.

Schlesinj · #17 10-26-2025, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Heritage could have bid itself too, according to its rules. Not saying that happened, I have no idea, although there are people here with inside knowledge who likely do know who the consignor was and whether someone actually won it (and who).

I would think having happy buyers of big boy items is as important as getting a bid increment on this item. It If I was the leader and the house bid up my bid and auction ends with no real winner the real bidder would be pissed. I would not be a bidder in the future.

Eric72 · #18 10-26-2025, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent G.

This is one of the dumbest things in all of collecting � huge value placed on the card being #1 in the set. Is there anything comparable in sports collecting?

1952 Topps Andy Pafko. Same as with the Skywalker card, condition matters quite a bit.

Interesting aside: Many collectors (myself included) would consider a card from 1977 to be somewhat new; however, the Star Wars card is roughly 2/3 the age of the '52 Pafko.

Seven · #19 10-26-2025, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

1952 Topps Andy Pafko. Same as with the Skywalker card, condition matters quite a bit.

Interesting aside: Many collectors (myself included) would consider a card from 1977 to be somewhat new; however, the Star Wars card is roughly 2/3 the age of the '52 Pafko.

At least Pafko was a solid ballplayer in his own right though. What was Skywalker's batting average?

Exhibitman · #20 10-26-2025, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

At least Pafko was a solid ballplayer in his own right though. What was Skywalker's batting average?

1.000. He blew up the Death Star

https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0?si=-bgeipzRzt8hKs29

byrone · #21 10-26-2025, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

1.000. He blew up the Death Star

https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0?si=-bgeipzRzt8hKs29

Yeah, but the Rebels stole the plans to the Death Star, so Luke had the inside scoop.

Kinda like the what Houston Astros did.

It wasn�t a fair situation for the Empire.

raulus · #22 10-26-2025, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byrone

Yeah, but the Rebels stole the plans to the Death Star, so Luke had the inside scoop.

Kinda like the what Houston Astros did.

It wasn�t a fair situation for the Empire.

Seems more like simply better advance scouting by the Bothans.

byrone · #23 10-26-2025, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

Seems more like simply better advance scouting by the Bothans.

Did they use garbage can signalling too?

Brent G. · #24 10-26-2025, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

1.000. He blew up the Death Star

https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0?si=-bgeipzRzt8hKs29

.333 � he blew up the Death Star, got his ass kicked by his old man, then was getting worked by the Emperor before daddy saved him.

Steve D · #25 10-27-2025, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent G.

.333 � he blew up the Death Star, got his ass kicked by his old man, then was getting worked by the Emperor before daddy saved him.

.250 - He couldn't raise the X-Wing out of the Dagobah swamp, and gave up; and then didn't believe it when Yoda succeeded.

Steve

Brent G. · #26 10-27-2025, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

.250 - He couldn't raise the X-Wing out of the Dagobah swamp, and gave up; and then didn't believe it when Yoda succeeded.

Steve

HAHAHAHA � �That, is why you fail.�

brianp-beme · #27 10-27-2025, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

.250 - He couldn't raise the X-Wing out of the Dagobah swamp, and gave up; and then didn't believe it when Yoda succeeded.

Steve

"Have Net54 not be without Yoda already?"

brianp-mebe

Exhibitman · #28 10-27-2025, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

.250 - He couldn't raise the X-Wing out of the Dagobah swamp, and gave up; and then didn't believe it when Yoda succeeded.

Steve

Spring training doesn't count. Besides, the real miracle in the swamp is that the ignition turned over. I leave my car at the airport for a week and its 50:50 I'm calling AAA.

steve B · #29 10-27-2025, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent G.

This is one of the dumbest things in all of collecting � huge value placed on the card being #1 in the set. Is there anything comparable in sports collecting?

Let me guess, you're about 10 years younger than I am, OR never sorted your cards in number order and kept them from getting out of order with rubber bands.
Yes, in many sets the first card gets a premium in higher grades.

Once hobby supplies like sleeves, holders and boxes became common the reason the first and last cards were harder to find in great condition went away and was sort of forgotten.
Oddly, the hobby getting big with retail shops removed the reason rookie cards were worth more, but that has become so ingrained it probably will never go away.

steve B · #30 10-27-2025, 09:00 AM

LOL, posted then continued reading..... A foolish thing.

But yes, almost exactly 10 year difference.

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