Show...me...your print variations!

[Kevvyg1026]

I have read with interest some of the dialogue/speculations about the printing of the 54 Topps, but I hadn't seen this error/variation posted. Here is one scan with Dave Philley having a slit edge mark, and another with a wrong back of Tom Qualters.

Attachment 660052

Attachment 660053

[wpeters]

I picked up a lot of 1972 Topps and these were some of the more egregious miscuts.

[philliesfan]

Nice miscuts Walt!

[swarmee]

1954 Topps - [Base] #208 - Grady Hatton
Courtesy of COMC.com

Recurring print defect - line through the O,N of Hatton.

[ALR-bishop]

Good one John

[Elberson]

1964 topps 102 checklist can be found with and without dot in number box and found a couple of tri colors backs

[spokering]

I am relatively new to sports card collecting and this is my first post to the forum, so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge or posting etiquette. For obscure reasons, I became interested in Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard Around the World" and putting together the Giant's boxscore from that game. While searching for 1951 Bowman NY Giants, I came across this Hank Sauer (I knew he was a Giant at some point but not in 1951) on Ebay. I quickly examined it and realized wrong team, but something caught my eye. I thought I was looking at a refractor. Closer examination reveals the printing defect which gives an interesting appearance of his bat. It seems the printing defect predominately affects the top half of the card although there seems to be something off throughout. I thought by sending it for grading to PSA, they might give me some clues to other similar defects. I did not know it at the time, but PSA has stopped providing modifiers such as PD and only gives a numeral score that incorporates the old modifiers which is why I think the card only scored a "4" (not important). It turns out of all the 257 Hank Sauer cards ever graded, only one received a modifier in the past (according to PSA customer support, they don't track the breakdown of modifers). I was hoping the group could give further thoughts about this particular printing defect. In my research, I could not find evidence of similar ones in the 1951 Bowman series. Thanks

[John1941]

Originally Posted by spokering

I am relatively new to sports card collecting and this is my first post to the forum, so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge or posting etiquette. For obscure reasons, I became interested in Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard Around the World" and putting together the Giant's boxscore from that game. While searching for 1951 Bowman NY Giants, I came across this Hank Sauer (I knew he was a Giant at some point but not in 1951) on Ebay. I quickly examined it and realized wrong team, but something caught my eye. I thought I was looking at a refractor. Closer examination reveals the printing defect which gives an interesting appearance of his bat. It seems the printing defect predominately affects the top half of the card although there seems to be something off throughout. I thought by sending it for grading to PSA, they might give me some clues to other similar defects. I did not know it at the time, but PSA has stopped providing modifiers such as PD and only gives a numeral score that incorporates the old modifiers which is why I think the card only scored a "4" (not important). It turns out of all the 257 Hank Sauer cards ever graded, only one received a modifier in the past (according to PSA customer support, they don't track the breakdown of modifers). I was hoping the group could give further thoughts about this particular printing defect. In my research, I could not find evidence of similar ones in the 1951 Bowman series. Thanks

Hi Mike,

Welcome.

What you have there is a card with print misregistration, which is considered to be neither a print defect nor a variation. Cards like that don't typically receive any premium but they can be kind of cool.

My guess is that the card received a 4 not because PSA applied any modifier to it but because lately grading companies have become very harsh in grading vintage.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by spokering

I am relatively new to sports card collecting and this is my first post to the forum, so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge or posting etiquette. For obscure reasons, I became interested in Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard Around the World" and putting together the Giant's boxscore from that game. While searching for 1951 Bowman NY Giants, I came across this Hank Sauer (I knew he was a Giant at some point but not in 1951) on Ebay. I quickly examined it and realized wrong team, but something caught my eye. I thought I was looking at a refractor. Closer examination reveals the printing defect which gives an interesting appearance of his bat. It seems the printing defect predominately affects the top half of the card although there seems to be something off throughout. I thought by sending it for grading to PSA, they might give me some clues to other similar defects. I did not know it at the time, but PSA has stopped providing modifiers such as PD and only gives a numeral score that incorporates the old modifiers which is why I think the card only scored a "4" (not important). It turns out of all the 257 Hank Sauer cards ever graded, only one received a modifier in the past (according to PSA customer support, they don't track the breakdown of modifers). I was hoping the group could give further thoughts about this particular printing defect. In my research, I could not find evidence of similar ones in the 1951 Bowman series. Thanks

Originally Posted by John1941

Hi Mike,

Welcome.

What you have there is a card with print misregistration, which is considered to be neither a print defect nor a variation. Cards like that don't typically receive any premium but they can be kind of cool.

My guess is that the card received a 4 not because PSA applied any modifier to it but because lately grading companies have become very harsh in grading vintage.

I agree with John with it being a print offset and not any kind of variation. The ones with a small offset like yours typically bring a little less money that a card with good print registration. Now if the print offset was off 3 times as much or more they do command a premium from us oddball collectors. The big print offset cards are among my favorite.

[spokering]

Thanks John and Ben for your insights. I didn't suspect it was worth a premium but thought the print defect/offset gave it a somewhat unique effect, especially how it impacted the bat.

[butchie_t]

I actually came across three 69 variation cards I thought I would never find. I am very happy to add these to my ever decreasing list of 69 variations. The Gosger, Shepard, and Quilici I do not believe have been added to this thread. Others listed, pretty sure they have.

Jim Gosger Blue Band on Bat
Larry Shepard Blue Streak
Frank Quilici Splotchy red band on back of card.

The other ones:

Gaylord Perry White Letter Wide number obscure on back
Gaylord Perry Yellow Letter Thin number obscure on back
Jimmie Hall Pink Top Right part of card
Ken Suarez Partial Last Name
And a couple of the Ray Washburn variations.

Cheers,

Butch

[butchie_t]

And now the 70's I recently came across too.

I have been looking for the 70 Checklist 4th series bottom 4 names smudges for quite some time and finally came across one.

The Expos team variation has a blob over the team name on the reverse.
Two of the ones I have are different blobs but still blobs.
The third one, I'm not exactly sure of it fitting the variation description I have: "Blob over team name and smudges on the card." So, I am taking a bit of a liberty thinking the red smudges are part of the variation. That is unless someone here can override that card with the actual one.

The Two Hegan Blue Sky's on right are slightly different variations of each other, so I got them both.

Chipping away at the 70 Topps Variations with these additions as well!!!

Cheers,

Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Great find Butch on the checklist, thats a new one for me. I am guessing you are aware there is the brown and red bat versions?

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by johnlenhardt

Great find Butch on the checklist, thats a new one for me. I am guessing you are aware there is the brown and red bat versions?

Thanks John,

I am familiar with the bat variations as well.

Cheers,

Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Hi Butch, curious would you have a copy of the 1972 Topps - #15 Walt Williams with red blob next to face? I do not have the card and actually never seen one for sale. I have the attached old pic, not sure where I got it. Not even sure it is real or just a one off card. Thx John

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by johnlenhardt

Hi Butch, curious would you have a copy of the 1972 Topps - #15 Walt Williams with red blob next to face? I do not have the card and actually never seen one for sale. I have the attached old pic, not sure where I got it. Not even sure it is real or just a one off card. Thx John

John,

No sir I do not have that variation. That would be a new one for me as well. I will say that if another one does exist there are a couple of fine gentleman here that may have one and hopefully will respond to your question.

There are a bunch of great variation gatherers here and it is bound to show up in someone's PC.

And now, I shall add that one to my 72 list. ;-)

Cheers and keep hunting!

Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Thanks Butch. Not sure if you classify difficulty level, but this would be rated extremely hard to find. I have looked for this one many years with no luck. Be interesting to see if someone reports they have one. John

[Cliff Bowman]

This one might be already well known but I wasn't aware of it. While looking at 1961 Topps 6th Series cards on TradingCardDataBase for another reason I noticed they had this card listed as a variation, 1961 Topps 473 Bobby Shantz with and without a green circle on the back of the card. I think it's a neat recurring print flaw but I wouldn't consider it a bona fide variation.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by johnlenhardt

Thanks Butch. Not sure if you classify difficulty level, but this would be rated extremely hard to find. I have looked for this one many years with no luck. Be interesting to see if someone reports they have one. John

Sometimes it is more a pain level than a difficulty level. Case in point: It is painful for me to know I will never own a 1990 Frank Thomas NNOF as well as the 1969 Topps Pittsburgh Rookie card with no black outline. Difficulty and Pain level are both high for me.

So some sets I will never get to a complete Master Set level. But the pain and difficulty with other sets is much less and the chances higher that I will get to a master set level.

Anyways, that is how it works in my crazy way of thinking about it. Mind you, I will continue to collect and have fun doing it.

Nature of the beast in collecting variations…..

Cheers,

Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Butch, Do you believe there is really a "complete Master Set level" that someone has? I would question that as there maybe a known complete Master Set level, but new variations can be found unexpectedly. Today you have a master set, but tomorrow, crap I do not have that one. Perfect example the 72 red dot I reported, John

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by johnlenhardt

Butch, Do you believe there is really a "complete Master Set level" that someone has? I would question that as there maybe a known complete Master Set level, but new variations can be found unexpectedly. Today you have a master set, but tomorrow, crap I do not have that one. Perfect example the 72 red dot I reported, John

Of course not!!! But a guy can dream!!

B.T.

[Kevvyg1026]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

This one might be already well known but I wasn't aware of it. While looking at 1961 Topps 6th Series cards on TradingCardDataBase for another reason I noticed they had this card listed as a variation, 1961 Topps 473 Bobby Shantz with and without a green circle on the back of the card. I think it's a neat recurring print flaw but I wouldn't consider it a bona fide variation.

What causes that type of defect? And would you expect others in that series to exhibit similar defects?

[Kevvyg1026]

1961, #519, Pags can be found both with and without a blue swirl by the catcher's mitt. It is easily found.

1961_519_Pags_blue_swirl.jpg

[Elberson]

1972 topps cubs TC 192……not really a E and V but a cool 3D color shift

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Elberson

1972 topps cubs TC 192……not really a E and V but a cool 3D color shift

That is awesome, the color shift cards are among my favorites.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

1961, #519, Pags can be found both with and without a blue swirl by the catcher's mitt. It is easily found.

Attachment 668375

Checked my set and did not have this one. Just picked the variation up on Ebay. Many available.

Thanks!

Mike

[Elberson]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is awesome, the color shift cards are among my favorites.

Thanks, I think I’ll sell or trade it, doesn’t fit my collection

***updated……sold it***

[Elberson]

Ok, here’s an expensive one that I just ran across while looking for my 1972 topps Nolan Ryan. Missing ink version? Smuggling on the plate? Here’s 3 different cards

[butchie_t]

Either this thread has run its course or everyone is just busy doing other things.

But....here are the next batch of my purchases of variations that I have picked up since the last time I posted.

Starting with 1969 Topps..

More Gaylord Perry's
Perry YL with Blue streak between the eyes on forehead - partial number obscure on back.

Perry WL and two YL cards - Blue streak side of face. The second YL variation has the blue streak but it is broken into two parts.


Sunny Siebert too.

All three Sieberts have the Black thread over the I in Indians. First one is a bit lighter than the others. And one I picked up only because of the yellow registration being off.

[butchie_t]

Continuing on with my variation pickups...I give you my 70's next.

Freehan - A.S. Red Boxes
Fregosi - White Line on top and dark line right border
Bunker - Slight pink bleed and greater pink bleed

[butchie_t]

Sliding into the 71s next.

Compton- Blue line bottom of card
Grabarkewitz - Yellow dot next to head
Tolan - Black Stripe across card
McQueen - Not easy to see in the scan but also a lite black stripe across card. you can really see it show up comparing it to his card with a darker stripe and the base card with no stripe at all.

[butchie_t]

Not to be outdone, I bring you the psychedelic 72s for your views.

Moret - Yellow bleed into name box
Bonham - White streak next to jersey number
Sutton - White uniform. Sorta subjective if you ask me. Looks more like lack of ink than a white uniform. Only way to see the difference was to have both cards, side-by-side.
Ron Santo - Yellow streak from nose to shoulder
Ron Santo - Blue streak on cap bottom of 'C'
Ron Santo A.S. - Rainbow streak
Ron Santo A.S. - Slight rainbow streak. This one looks like they tried, and failed to cover it all up. It is easier to see in person.

[butchie_t]

And to end the streak for today, I bring you a couple of 75s

75 Rookie Pitchers - Blue donut over N in Konieczny (this one was in the Dingman list)

I have been searching somewhat off and on for the Twins team Black line on the left of the card. I found one in the mini version of this set, but Im not collecting that set. I did stumble across the two you see here that have a blue line on the left of the card.

Ok, well it is certainly repeatable. I picked up the second one only because it appeared a bit darker than the first one.

I have not seen a blue line card until just a couple of weeks ago nor have I even heard a mention of it. I believe this to be a new variant of this card. And I would certainly appreciate anyone else that may have come across this card to weigh in please.


Ok, that is it for now..... Stay tuned, I have some 71 checklist variations on the way along with others from that set as well.

TTFN - Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Hi Butchie - Some nice finds here where I would add a few things.
- Grabarkewitz - Yellow dot next to head & Red dot version
- Moret - Yellow bleed into name box & Dot in yellow boarder above "R" in Rogelio (no bleed)
- Bonham - White streak next to jersey number - Only found on cards where green on bottom of C & S
- Ron Santo - Blue streak on cap bottom of 'C' & Blue streak on cap right of 'C'
75 Rookie Pitchers - Blue donut over N in Konieczny & 1/2 donut right of "s" in Astros (Konieczny )

[4reals]

Hey Butchie, nice pickups!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[butchie_t]

Thanks Joe!!

It was getting lonely in here ;-)

Cheers,

Butch

[wpeters]

I found this card today and I have never seen it before. Is this a new blue streak?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by wpeters

I found this card today and I have never seen it before. Is this a new blue streak?

Nice find, Craig is on the top (or bottom) row of the F* sheet so unfortunately there aren't other possible cards connected to the flaw like the Clemens-Seaver-Puhl combo.

[ALR-bishop]

Another one

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

Continuing on with my variation pickups...I give you my 70's next.

Freehan - A.S. Red Boxes
Fregosi - White Line on top and dark line right border
Bunker - Slight pink bleed and greater pink bleed

Not certain the white line Fregosi should be counted as a print variation - seam lines like this appear on many Topps sets without white borders (1970 and 1962 come immediately to mind) where blocks of rows are repeated on the same sheet. So, on every 1970 sheet containing a Fregosi there is a white line between his row and the row above. The reason it can be seen on some cards and not others is simply due to whether the card is cut off-center. It's actually more a miscut than a variation.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Not certain the white line Fregosi should be counted as a print variation - seam lines like this appear on many Topps sets without white borders (1970 and 1962 come immediately to mind) where blocks of rows are repeated on the same sheet. So, on every 1970 sheet containing a Fregosi there is a white line between his row and the row above. The reason it can be seen on some cards and not others is simply due to whether the card is cut off-center. It's actually more a miscut than a variation.

Makes sense to me. I just added the white line as a result of the black line.

Thanks,

Butch

[Northviewcats]

Found this 1971 Munson in a group of cards that I just got in. Has anyone else seen the black loop in the right border. The area is smooth to the touch and looks like stray ink in the printing process. Printing error?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Joe

[butchie_t]

The following I have gathered since my last postings on the subject.

In order of appearance:

Beckert: Orange scratches below 'G' in Glenn autograph
Campisi: No red lipstick on nose. Not sure if this is the variation or the regular version.
Lolich: Black blob and blue blob next to team name.
Reed: Both have the red mark by his head and one has the red mark and scratches in the grass on the left side of the picture.
Stone: Green splotches on uniform.
Such: Line in 'e' in Pitcher
Walton: I show both here as it is the best example of the variation. This has the black mark on the billboard where it is circled. This one is in the Dingman's list and I believe this is what he referred to on his explanation. Again, happy to be wrong here if someone else can validate it.

And the very last one:

75 Topps Checklist #1. This is repeatable too. The 'd' in record next to Kaline is partially missing, same can be said for the Ryan line too. I have not seen this listed anywhere and, again, I believe a new variant noted within this set.

Feel free to differ.

I will post all my 71 checklists in a different post. Those things are pulling what is left of my hair out trying to gather the color differences.

Cheers,

Butch

[johnlenhardt]

Nice Butch, curious when you post a new find do you include all versions you know of? In some cases I know of other versions you did not mention, so not sure if you are aware.

If there is a interest I can report my known versions on a card that someone has reported on. John

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by johnlenhardt

Nice Butch, curious when you post a new find do you include all versions you know of? In some cases I know of other versions you did not mention, so not sure if you are aware.

If there is a interest I can report my known versions on a card that someone has reported on. John

If you go back and read this entire thread, there is a fair chance it has been posted. I’m not gonna rehash that information. I’m just posting the ones I pick up, when I find them.

I also have a database of what I have found previously. So, I just post the finds that are new to my collection. Hence the name of this thread.

Additionally, If you have a variation that is not listed previously or you just wish to post your collection of variations, please, by all means do so. If it is something we don’t have, we will commence to searching.

Cheers,

Butch

[Sliphorn]

This appears to be a one off as I have never seen another copy with black sleeves and cap or hat.

[butchie_t]

Have you tried putting that under a black light. That looks like marker ink??

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

Have you tried putting that under a black light. That looks like marker ink??

+1, looks like marker unfortunately

[butchie_t]

As promised, my 71 checklists I recently picked up.

These have been pain points for me as the look of them on eBay and then in hand sometimes do not match. Not that they sent a different card, they just did not register well when they were scanned I guess.

Anyway, I believe I covered some holes in my collection with the following cards:

In order of appearance:

Cklst 2 - Orange-White Helmet 123 Right side on back #1 (looks red here but my red one is even red-er)
Cklst 2 - Orange-White Helmet 123 Right side on back #2 (was not sure with the first one, so I bought a second one)
Cklst 2 - Orange(maybe red)-White-Black Helmet 123 Centered on back.
Cklst 2 - Red-White Helmet 123 Right side #1
Cklst 2 - Red-White Helmet 123 Right side #2 (was not sure with the first one, so I bought a second one)
Cklst 2 - White connected,,,,,,or not.

A couple of these series 2 checklists looked like there was a filled white section over the top of the helmet as noted on the Baseball Variations Guide website. But, now in hand, probably not.

Cklst 3 - Red-White Helmet 1/8 inch gap top of checklist numbers

Cklst 5 - Orange-White-Black Helmet 1/32 inch gap (AL Rookie Pitchers) next to border
Cklst 5 - Red-White-Black Helmet 1/32 inch gap (AL Rookie Pitchers) next to border

Cklst 6 - Black Wavy Line Front of Helmet.

Some of these are smack on variations where others are certainly left to the individuals interpretation. All I can do is compare them against what I currently have and if they look close to orange than red, I am blessing them as orange.

Cheers,

B.T.

[Sliphorn]

Originally Posted by G1911

+1, looks like marker unfortunately

The seller reminded me that PSA had slabbed it so a mqrker likely would have been caurght then. I put lal my cards in albums so I removed it once I got it.