How much would it cost these days to have a "Nationals Worthy" booth?

[Snapolit1]

I'd be curious to hear from some of the dealers here what the number is they figure they need to hit in sales just for the trip to be a break even. Travel, rental space, paying for help, meals, etc.

Obviously different for the AH guys, who are there to drum up publicity and interest.

[Jewish-collector]

Not sure of the answer, but a really good idea I suggest is for a long time collector (who wants to sell their entire collection) to set up at a National to sell it all. They will do great, especially if they have unusual material. Oh hell yeah. beer chug.gif

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Not sure of the answer, but a really good idea I suggest is for a long time collector (who wants to sell their entire collection) to set up at a National to sell it all. They will do great, especially if they have unusual material. Oh hell yeah. Attachment 667766

Isn't there a long waiting list of dealers who want to get a spot at The National? I don't think a collector could just get a spot to sell at.

[Jewish-collector]

I meant get on the waiting list.

[Fred]

Just curious - how much does it cost for a table at the National? I can figure out the rest (approximate travel costs, hotel, food). Edited to add - if any dealers want to provide their break even number, please do so. Maybe next time the buyer may have a better clue that there is a cost of doing business at the show.

Another question - an assumption is that most dealers drive to the show because flying would require relinquishing card inventory to the airlines baggage handlers (oh yeah, let's do that...)
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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious - how much does it cost for a table at the National? I can figure out the rest (approximate travel costs, hotel, food). Edited to add - if any dealers want to provide their break even number, please do so. Maybe next time the buyer may have a better clue that there is a cost of doing business at the show.

Another question - an assumption is that most dealers drive to the show because flying would require relinquishing card inventory to the airlines baggage handlers (oh yeah, let's do that...)
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Yes do not do that. Just mail them to the Motel 6 you are staying at because I hear low rent motels take good care of high end cards mailed to them.

Too soon?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'd be curious to hear from some of the dealers here what the number is they figure they need to hit in sales just for the trip to be a break even. Travel, rental space, paying for help, meals, etc.

Obviously different for the AH guys, who are there to drum up publicity and interest.

I don't know the magic number but I have to think if a dealer sets up, with all of the associated expenses, from Wed-Sun....with lots of variables, there might be around 3500 in total cost...

So, anything in profit over that, depending if you count your time as a cost, would be that break even point. I think it could be a 1 card sale or 100 cards sold....When I set up, I just looked at the profit I made, not how many sales. Everyone does it differently.

I voted 50k-100k because it could be done on that, but you might not have higher end sales.
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[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't know the magic number but I have to think if a dealer sets up, with all of the associated expenses, from Wed-Sun....with lots of variables, there might be around 3500 in total cost...

So, anything in profit over that, depending if you count your time as a cost, would be that break even point. I think it could be a 1 card sale or 100 cards sold....When I set up, I just looked at the profit I made, not how many sales. Everyone does it differently.

I voted 50k-100k because it could be done on that, but you might not have higher end sales.
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Leon's number of $3500 is pretty much dead on. I've talked to enough dealers and done enough math to know his figure is accurate.

Now remember that $3500 only covers expenses and not the cost of your goods sold. So, you probably need to take in $8-10K at the minimum to make your week worthwhile. And using that you see about 10 percent of the value of the inventory as a guide, then I would say a minimum of 80-100K of items brought with you to make the weekend worthwhle.

Now, some dealers still treat the NSCC as a vacation week *yes that number is dwindling* and if the show is part of a vacation, then you might be satisfied with a different number taken in.

Regards
Rich

[Yoda]

I will be interested in vintage card pricing reports. I expect there will be sticker shock even worse than expected.

[notfast]

If a dealer is only ending up with $3500 in sales over the entire week, they need to give up their spot and not take up space.

That number is probably accurate to break even for a single 10x10/10x15 booth with one person working, lives within a tank of gas driving distance, eating ramen and staying at the motel 6 20 miles away…if they dont value their time.


These events have gotten so big and costly. The average “simple set up” booth is going to need to make 5 figures to feel like it was a good week. That goes up exponentially when you scale up these booths that make up the majority of the show.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by notfast

If a dealer is only ending up with $3500 in sales over the entire week, they need to give up their spot and not take up space.

That number is probably accurate to break even for a single 10x10/10x15 booth with one person working, lives within a tank of gas driving distance, eating ramen and staying at the motel 6 20 miles away…if they dont value their time.


These events have gotten so big and costly. The average “simple set up” booth is going to need to make 5 figures to feel like it was a good week. That goes up exponentially when you scale up these booths that make up the majority of the show.

Just a reminder, we did not say $3500 in SALES we said $3500 in initial expenses. Unless you are in that small minority treating the NSCC as a vacation week and a way to break even to see friends, then no way $3500 in sales is sufficent.

[rand1com]

Expense depends on travel cost.

Here is an average breakdown if you are driving your own vehicle.

1 Booth $1295
Hotel $1500 (Decent 3 star hotel through Conference Housing)(If you stay on site at Chicago, the Hotel cost is much higher but my example is the budget minded cost)
Gas $ 200 (Based on driving 500 miles each way)

Total $2995

You have to eat so that is not an expense in my calculation. But, figure another $500 so all in $3495 as Leon and Rich surmised to spend the week there on somewhat of a budget.

You would be surprised how many dealers are retired and do the National for fun, not for sales.

Many like to show off their collection and could care less if they sell anything. Their prices reflect that attitude.

I would guess 20% of the booths would have a cost value inventory of $25K or less. If they sell $10K, they did OK.

Sales for the National by booth would range from next to nothing to 7 figures. I would guess 75% would sell less than $50K. That still leaves a lot of dealers selling between $50K and 7 figures.

All guesses of course but based on doing 15 Nationals.

Granted, in the earlier years when booths did not sell out (yes, there were years when they did not sell out), today's figures would dwarf sales.

[UKCardGuy]

Interesting topic. It really depends on what you consider National Worthy.

If I assume a National Worthy booth has a few display cases with pre and post war stars, maybe a dollar box too and some complete sets and maybe a bit of cool memorabilia...inventory might include something like this:

T206 stars (couple of cobbs, mathewson, etc)
Perhaps a smattering of T205, M101-4, e91s etc)
A stack of 1952 Topps including a Mantle or a Mays
A stack of 53T including Satchel and Jackie
A selection of Goudeys, Playball, postcards, etc
A further selection of topps stars from 1954 to 1972

There also has to be enough inventory to sell across 5 days. That means having inventory under the table to replace sold items.

If I assume there's at least 100 cards in each display case and a average price of $500 per card in the case then it's pretty easy to get to $300K.

I have no doubt you could set up with much less, but is that National Worthy?

[Snapolit1]

Very interesting. Thanks Rich and Leon.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Leon's number of $3500 is pretty much dead on. I've talked to enough dealers and done enough math to know his figure is accurate.

Now remember that $3500 only covers expenses and not the cost of your goods sold. So, you probably need to take in $8-10K at the minimum to make your week worthwhile. And using that you see about 10 percent of the value of the inventory as a guide, then I would say a minimum of 80-100K of items brought with you to make the weekend worthwhle.

Now, some dealers still treat the NSCC as a vacation week *yes that number is dwindling* and if the show is part of a vacation, then you might be satisfied with a different number taken in.

Regards
Rich