eBay Incompetence at Its Finest

[sonnyu2]

Little story about how incompetent eBay and its reps are. Be aware that eBay will not stand by what an eBay rep tells you to do as a seller when dealing with any return case or other issue.

We sold an unopened 1995 Bowman Baseball box on eBay for $250 and the buyer received it - opened over half of the packs inside - then opened a return case for it because they thought it was "searched".

This was 100% a fraudulent return as the box was not tampered with in anyway (I don't even know how anyone could search 1995 Bowman as the packs are tightly sealed foil or cello depending on the type of pack), so we contacted eBay right away and the agent agreed that the case was fraudulent and that the return would not be allowed. The agent told us to let the case expire without taking action and the return would be denied.

Well of course the opposite occurs, and once the case expired, the buyer was able to get a prepaid label and allowed to return the opened box.

So, we contacted eBay again and explained the situation. This agent read the case files and said we were given misinformation by the first agent and that we should have responded to the return case. But, since we were given misinformation, that the case would be closed in our favor. She closed the case, and it was resolved in our favor...or at least we thought.

The buyer was able to appeal the case and since the return showed as being delivered back to us, eBay reversed the decision and refunded the buyer out of our account. We didn't even get the eBay fees back.

So, we contacted eBay yet again, and were told to appeal the case and we should be given our money back. So, we filed the appeal and provided great detail on what the previous eBay agents had instructed us to do and what was supposed to happen with the case.

The appeal was of course denied. Even with whoever reviewed the case agreeing that we were given misinformation by eBay and that we only followed exactly what eBay told us to do.

They said they cannot overturn the decision due to the buyer sending the item back to us. Even when the first agent said that the buyer would not be able to return it. We didn't send the return label to them - eBay did.

So, we contact eBay yet again and are told that we are basically out of luck. We were literally told that we should not have listened to the other eBay reps.

The last rep said "well, we sent you an automated email about the case and you should have responded to the initial return case". I said, the first agent said to take no action - literally said "do not respond to the return case - let it expire". The rep said well they were wrong. Basically, saying we messed up by listening to an eBay rep.

We have been on eBay since 1998, have a perfect feedback rating of over 18,000, are a "Top Rated Seller", and average around $150k per year in sales on eBay. The last rep couldn't care less that we paid over $5k in eBay fees in the last 30 days. They could not care less that we did exactly as we were told by eBay.

I asked how a seller is protected from a scam buyer if this is how eBay handles the situation, and the agent said to offer "Free Returns" and you can deduct a fee from the refund. That is their solution. What???

I said, so you're saying I can buy any factory sealed trading card box on eBay - open it and take out the cards I want - then return it without issue. She said, yes, you can do that. But, if the seller reports you for a fraudulent return, you "might" lose your money back guarantee.

Lesson Learned - There is ZERO protection for eBay sellers - no matter how established you are on there.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by sonnyu2

We have been on eBay since 1998, have a perfect feedback rating of over 18,000, are a "Top Rated Seller",

I apologize that you had this frustrating situation occur.

Recently, I had a single card return. The buyer returned a lower grade copy of the same card. I accepted the return and as a TRS, I provided a 50% refund per ebay guidelines.

I have not had any luck with having fraudulent returns closed in my favor, but the 50% option has been my best bet.

It seems that in your situation as a TRS, providing the 50% refund back and selling the remaining unopened packs would have been an option to recover most of your costs (as well as sending a message to the buyer that they will incur a cost for their scam).

FWIW, in my case I was able to resell the lower grade copy I received back for 50% of the original copy.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I apologize that you had this frustrating situation occur.

Recently, I had a single card return. The buyer returned a lower grade copy of the same card. I accepted the return and as a TRS, I provided a 50% refund per ebay guidelines.

I have not had any luck with having fraudulent returns closed in my favor, but the 50% option has been my best bet.

It seems that in your situation as a TRS, providing the 50% refund back and selling the remaining unopened packs would have been an option to recover most of your costs (as well as sending a message to the buyer that they will incur a cost for their scam).

FWIW, in my case I was able to resell the lower grade copy I received back for 50% of the original copy.

Sonny,

Sorry that happened to you. What a mess. Good idea Larry, if I ever start selling again will have to remember that.

[Jewish-collector]

That's terrible.
Why do you still sell on eBay ?

[Leon]

This was moved from another section as ebay pertains to a lot of us... They never fail to amaze me. But, if you can get to someone that has some sense, you can still get things done.
.

[raulus]

I think this is symptomatic of why many of us as sellers are big fans of the AG program. Once the item gets to the authenticator, then we're in the clear when it comes to bogus returns and other buyer shenanigans.

Naturally, not everything is eligible for the AG program. And sometimes the goons working the program are awfully fussy about piffle. But in spite of its flaws, it helps to eliminate dealing with buyers who pull nonsense like happened here.

[Yoda]

Sunny, sorry to piggyback on your post but I just was insulted by the USPS yet again. This time I bought a nice '47 Bond Bread Johnny Mize from a board member, a card i had been searching for a while. Yesterday I received in the mail the envelope the card had been mailed in. But no card and the envelope torn and taped over. There was a useless note from the PO saying so sorry, we strive to deliver your mail safely and securely blah blah. I have contacted the PO to initiate the claim and they want every scrap of evidence available, which I think I have. It is an open and shut case of theft by one of their employees. This week had been going pretty well until this.....

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by raulus

I think this is symptomatic of why many of us as sellers are big fans of the AG program. Once the item gets to the authenticator, then we're in the clear when it comes to bogus returns and other buyer shenanigans.

Yup. I’d never sell an expensive card on eBay otherwise. The hobby is plagued by predatory scum and eBay is their biggest benefactor.

What is the name and ebay user name of the lying pig who ripped off the OP? All us other sellers should block him.

[perezfan]

I'm very close to being done with eBay.

The number of quality items has dwindled to almost nothing, their seller fees are ridiculous, and their new anti-snipe policy ruins it for me as a buyer.

There are just too many better options (for buying and selling) via the Auction House route.

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

All us other sellers should block him.

They create another account and/or purchase as a guest. Blocking is a false sense of security. Best to allow them to function out in the open. Easier to spot… deal with them on a case by case basis.

I once did a deal with a well known scammer. Went into it with my eyes wide open. Guy shipped exactly what I bought quickly and IIRC threw in a couple extras.

YMMV

[jbbama]

Ebay is not for sellers, period. I found out the hard way several years ago, which is completely ironic because without sellers there is no Ebay!

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by jbbama

Ebay is not for sellers, period. I found out the hard way several years ago, which is completely ironic because without sellers there is no Ebay!

Where would ebay be without buyers? 2 way street.

Did the OP buy that box of Bowman in 1995 and hold it for 30yrs before selling? What’s the back story on the box? Where did it come from? I don’t doubt the seller is being completely honest…but….Is it possible the box was tampered with 25yrs ago?

[sonnyu2]

I only owned the box for around 6 months (came in a bigger unopened box / set collection lot sold by a well-respected auction house that advertises here).

I have handled many thousands of unopened boxes from all eras and the 1995 Bowman one was 100% legit with its original factory seal still on it.

The buyer opened 12 of the 20 jumbo packs, returned 8 unopened packs, plus cards from the packs they opened but 6 cards were missing from the cards they returned (should have been 168 cards returned, but they only returned 162). So, guessing they opened the packs found 6 "better" ones and decided to initiate the return.

Thankfully, $250 isn't going to make or break me and I expect there to be some buyer issues when selling bigger volumes of items on eBay. There are bound to be some bad actors unfortunately...

This was more a cautionary tale about eBay telling you specifically to do one thing and that you'll be protected as a seller, reneging on that, reversing that reneging, then reversing again and saying a final "you're out of luck" and you shouldn't have listened to their own eBay reps.

After a last-ditch effort chat with another eBay rep, I was able to at least get the $35 in fees for the transaction refunded as a one-time courtesy (even when the previous phone rep said there was no way to refund anything to us from the transaction - even the fees).

It is mind-boggling that you can get so many different answers / resolutions to the same question or scenario when dealing with eBay reps. It's almost as if their goal is to be as incompetent as possible.

And also, to note - typically anytime you contact eBay customer service they send a "How did we do?" message afterwards. Well, after the last phone conversation with the rep that just refused to help in anyway and blamed us for listening the to the other reps - and said they were the senior person in their department so there was no one else to escalate the case to - we did not get any "How did we do?" questionnaire for that phone call. Coincidence?