eBay trying to remove sniping

[Schlesinj]

Read this online, but eBay is beta testing a new platform that extends their auctions for sports cards when a bid is placed during the last 2 minutes. IMG_8026.jpg

I suspect some folks may have some opinions on the matter. I guess it could lead to higher prices for sellers, but would also remove the annoyance of losing at last second by a bot.

[Balticfox]

The extended bidding should only be available to whoever bid at least thirty minutes before the previous close. So therefore a last second sniper wouldn't be able to submit more bids.

[luciobar1980]

I dont see why not. Seems more fair and potentially higher prices for sellers too

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

This is ridiculous. If eBay wants to be like the auction houses, then they should simply start up that type of auction house, separate from the proven success model which has made them trillions of dollars over the last 30 years. Frankly, I'm amazed they haven't done so a long time ago.

I love sniping. I can just "set it and forget it" and get on with everything else I have to do. Not interested in having to deal with auctions at all hours of the day, every moment of my life. As a seller, it's great as well. Auctions are exhausting. It's enough to have to go through every auction house's barrage of neverending listings, then eBay, then other sales platforms. If anything, they need to create a system that is less draining on their customers, not more so.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

This is ridiculous. If eBay wants to be like the auction houses, then they should simply start up that type of auction house, separate from the proven success model which has made them trillions of dollars over the last 30 years. Frankly, I'm amazed they haven't done so a long time ago.

eBay owns Goldin

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

This is ridiculous. If eBay wants to be like the auction houses, then they should simply start up that type of auction house, separate from the proven success model which has made them trillions of dollars over the last 30 years. Frankly, I'm amazed they haven't done so a long time ago.

Ummm...they own Goldin.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Forgive me for failing to recall that. That is one of the few auction houses I purposely avoid having anything to do with, so don't keep up with the happenings.

[ClementeFanOh]

Sounds like a step in the right direction- Trent King

[bandrus1]

Id say this is good news for sellers

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by bandrus1

Id say this is good news for sellers

Great news for sellers, f'sure.

As a buyer I've never liked the snipe-bid culture, but it's one of those things where so many people are doing it you kinda have to do it if it's happening at a convenient time (or use a sniping service).

Rare stuff without a recent established market is a nightmare trying to do a bid highest and walk away type thing.

I still get shocked on some things I pick up, rare or not, when there's not last minute bids because of how uncommon it's been for so long. I feel compelled to check the listing to make sure there's not some flaw I overlooked.

[Lucas00]

Terrible news in my opinion. I don't see 2 min bid reset timers ever getting a higher price than what I've seen (and been a part of) sniping auctions with max bids.

The amount of times I've seen an auction jump from $50-$500, $10-$200, no bids at all once to $750 in the last few seconds is insane. These jumps will never happen again. It will just be a few people stuck at the screen bidding a few dollars hoping the other people get bored/busy and leave. Those same crazy last second snipes will instead sell for a fraction of what they should because two people bid a dollar for an hour straight, waiting 1.58 minutes to press $1 bid. Because what would be the point in sniping at all/setting a Max bid early when you could just do the same thing.

[scotgreb]

I completely disagree that this will be good for sellers. The liquidity that flippers / dealers provide will be greatly diminished imo. My aggregate bidding will likely go to near $0 - from a fairly high annual amount. -Scott

Sent from my SM-S921U using Tapatalk

[raulus]

2 minutes!!!???

People seem to complain about 15 minutes being waaaaaaay too zippy. I guess the only benefit of eBay's platform is that you might not be bidding on 100 different items that end all at the same time, so maybe you can just concentrate on a single item and go to town with a 2-min shot clock.

[nwobhm]

I think we will see many large bids and buyers walk away if they don’t like the final price. They will put a card on file that has an available balance of only a few dollars and ebay gets zip.

Rinse and repeat.

What’s ebay going to do….ban them?

[bnorth]

I guess they will do it because that is what eBay does, makes stuff worse with every change.

I believe it will cause lower overall selling prices. It will force people to be on eBay at specific times for an unspecific amount of time. Horrible idea at best.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It will force people to be on eBay at specific times for an unspecific amount of time. Horrible idea at best.

Exactly. I am not understanding those who think this is a positive change for anybody.

I make my living in this industry, but I'll be damned if I am going to let this new format dictate how I plan out my life and sleep schedule in an effort to secure more inventory. I don't care if it's a 99 cent item or something valuable. Should eBay go full-on with this harebrained idea beyond a trial phase, they will soon learn the error of their ways.

The vast majority of what is sold on eBay is low-end stuff. In their totality, these crumbs bring in a pile of money for eBay in addition to the incredible material. In a way, this chaff, if you will, is the foundation of it all. Is anybody staying up until 3:00 a.m. to make sure they win that VG 1961 Topps Rip Repulski? Well, I suppose not, and that type of item will simply end as it would normally have.

The bottom line is that sniping allows customers more freedom in their lives. This new setup will severely constrict that freedom. No, thanks. It's just cardboard.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

It's just cardboard.

Blasphemy!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

(maybe I'm missing something, and this new system is intended only for items over a certain dollar value?)

The original post included the pasted message from Ebay that this test will apply to select items in the Trading Card category. I assume that these will be higher priced cards, but it is possible they will try out cards from a wide range of value to test its viability.

If it hasn't been obvious until now, Ebay only knows how to tinker with things.


Brian

[perezfan]

I read through this twice, and did not see this specific point covered.... So I will ask it here...

Does the final bidding extend for two minutes just one single time?

Or does it extend for 2 minutes with every subsequent bid that is placed?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify.

[jayshum]

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I guess they will do it because that is what eBay does, makes stuff worse with every change.

I believe it will cause lower overall selling prices. It will force people to be on eBay at specific times for an unspecific amount of time. Horrible idea at best.

I would think that you could still place a max bid without having to be on eBay until the item ends.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If this ends up being standard protocol, I guess the sniping services will have to re-format their websites accordingly. "Initial Snipe", "Secondary Snipe", "Tertiary Snipe", ad nauseum.

[Schlesinj]

I work in an industry that utilizes a 2 minute rule for an auction platform. In this case the auctions last 15 minutes and will get extended for each increment if the rate is reduced. The time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate not each time someone bids. These are blind auction with the bidders only knowing if they are not winning.

This has been standard for over 20 years. The bidders are used to it and generally have been a positive platform. It has produced lower rates (which is good in this case) vs the alternative.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I work in an industry that utilizes a 2 minute rule for an auction platform. In this case the auctions last 15 minutes and will get extended for each increment if the rate is reduced. The time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate not each time someone bids. These are blind auction with the bidders only knowing if they are not winning.

This has been standard for over 20 years. The bidders are used to it and generally have been a positive platform. It has produced lower rates (which is good in this case) vs the alternative.

I don't understand what you are saying. What is the rate you are talking about? What do you mean that the time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate?

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand what you are saying. What is the rate you are talking about? What do you mean that the time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate?

I was trying to keep it generic since it sounds like a similar concept. The initial response of the bidders was they did not like it. It then became normal.

It is for the sale of municipal bonds to the primary investor (usually an investment bank). Rate just means overall interest rate and cost in this case. The lower the better for the issuer off be bonds.

[Knightlax5]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I was trying to keep it generic since it sounds like a similar concept. The initial response of the bidders was they did not like it. It then became normal.

It is for the sale of municipal bonds to the primary investor (usually an investment bank). Rate just means overall interest rate and cost in this case. The lower the better for the issuer off be bonds.

How are buying bonds the same as buying sports cards? There is no way they DECREASE the price in extended bidding, that would completely defeat the purpose.

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

How are buying bonds the same as buying sports cards? There is no way they DECREASE the price in extended bidding, that would completely defeat the purpose.

Sorry to confuse you, lower rates resulting from an extra bid is same idea of extra bid for cards increased price for a card.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Terrible news in my opinion. I don't see 2 min bid reset timers ever getting a higher price than what I've seen (and been a part of) sniping auctions with max bids.

The amount of times I've seen an auction jump from $50-$500, $10-$200, no bids at all once to $750 in the last few seconds is insane. These jumps will never happen again. It will just be a few people stuck at the screen bidding a few dollars hoping the other people get bored/busy and leave. Those same crazy last second snipes will instead sell for a fraction of what they should because two people bid a dollar for an hour straight, waiting 1.58 minutes to press $1 bid. Because what would be the point in sniping at all/setting a Max bid early when you could just do the same thing.

I am with you, I think it will result in lower sales prices without the need for large max bids because people understand the sniping and thus place the largest bid they are willing to pay.

It will also damage sales as the average buyer on eBay does not use or participate in traditional auctions. They will get confused and frustrated leading to avoidance of auction formats. A dumb move like this is only going to rush the already strong movement towards fixed pricing on eBay. This is likely the nail in the coffin for the full switch to BIN. It is fantastic news for LCS and Card shows.

[OhioLawyerF5]

They've got to give the shill bids from their biggest sellers plenty of time to find the max bids of legitimate buyers.

[Fred]

Don't you wonder why they didn't institute this type of bidding long ago?

It works for AHs.

I don't care either way because I typically know what I'll spend on something and if it goes way past what I'm bidding, then it just wasn't meant to be.

[dariushou]

I too think this will lower prices. I don't have time to bid auction format for every item I snipe on ebay. I already spend enough time on regular big name auctionhouses. I will do buy it now/ offer or snipe under current format or simply won't bid. So they'll lose me and i'm sure many others.

[Ray Van]

My initial reaction was very negative towards eBay for making such a move. I use a snipe service for >80% of my bids so initially I thought it would really impact my chances of success. But the reality is, by using a snipe service you are setting your max bid and you are still taking your chances based on whoever else is bidding against you regardless of when they place their bids.

It doesn't really matter if the auction ends at 10:00 or 10:02 or 10:30, if my max (snipe) bid goes in 5 seconds before the initial auction deadline, then I win if nobody outbids my max and I lose if someone outbids my max - just that simple. Sure, it allows someone to continue to bid the item up and maybe eventually win it from me, but then again they are winning the item for more than I was willing to pay.

I might revise my strategy and up my snipe bid amounts to give me a little more buffer, and I don't like that I won't be able to win so many auctions on the cheap, but c'est la vie.

[Exhibitman]

I think the idea stinks in no small part because eBay has not concerned itself in the slightest with shill bidding. I snipe everything because of the potential for shill bidding given eBay's total lack of enforcement and safeguards.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I think the idea stinks in no small part because eBay has not concerned itself in the slightest with shill bidding. I snipe everything because of the potential for shill bidding given eBay's total lack of enforcement and safeguards.

100%

All the other discussions are noise. Buyers should be concerned about shill bidding, and ebay is doing this to facilitate it. They have proven over and over again, unless they want you gone because you are a competitor, they have no problem with shill bidding.

[RayBShotz]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I think the idea stinks in no small part because eBay has not concerned itself in the slightest with shill bidding. I snipe everything because of the potential for shill bidding given eBay's total lack of enforcement and safeguards.

Adam is spot on here.
RayB

[Leon]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

100%

All the other discussions are noise. Buyers should be concerned about shill bidding, and ebay is doing this to facilitate it. They have proven over and over again, unless they want you gone because you are a competitor, they have no problem with shill bidding.

+1
In my view it is a wildly stupid idea and will definitely decrease final selling prices. Unless it's a BIN, I snipe almost 100% of the time. What a totally ignorant move on their part. (again, just my opinion). There is a 100% chance I spend less on ebay if this comes to fruition. I am sure I am not alone. I am not dictating my life around eBay auctions.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I think the idea stinks in no small part because eBay has not concerned itself in the slightest with shill bidding. I snipe everything because of the potential for shill bidding given eBay's total lack of enforcement and safeguards.

I couldn't agree more

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Any type of auction (eBay, auction houses) can drive you mad if you give too much thought to shill bidding. Sniping certainly does aid in giving it less thought. Without the assistance of sniping, I can't imagine how often we'd all have to pay our max bids. If we can't trust all auction listings to be run honestly, then why shouldn't we have software which helps us keep things as fair as possible?

With any auction, I simply don't think of them as actual, legitimate auctions. I just imagine them as a sale, with my max bid being the highest I'd be willing to pay if I saw something for sale at a show or elsewhere. If I have to pay the max, that's just fine. Should I miraculously get something for less than that, all the better. Thank you, sniping software! Perhaps this is easier for me because I'm strictly purchasing for resale. I'm not interested in setting any new record sale prices, nor do I keep bidding due to an insatiable collector craving to fill a hole in my collection. If there's no room for the profit margin I'm looking for, someone else can have it. It doesn't matter.

All of this "15 minute rule", "two minute rule" stuff has always been BS from a buyer's standpoint. I can't stand it. No, I'm not staying up until 2:00 a.m. for the sake of your auction. It's ridiculous. Here is what amounts to my maximum offer, tendered a few minutes before your rule starts. Take it or leave it. I'm going to bed.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

Agreed. You can still put in your max or snipe bid and, if higher than the next increment, you will be autobid to the next increment. Here is a real life example of why/how it could work and be good:

Last night I wanted to win a Willie mays “the catch” ticket. With one minute left, it was at $5100. I put in my “snipe” max bid of $6559 with 4 seconds left. Turns out I was outbid by one increment by another sniper at $6659. However, given the chance, I likely would have bid another one or two times, but I was not given the option; the auction just ends.

So, the snipes work their way into out, establishing a high bid for extended bidding and then people can go back at it, in two minute increments, after that. Nothing but good for sellers. As a buyer, those wanting to get a deal from the auction ending absolutely may be harmed, but those buyers like me last night will be happy to be given another opportunity

One last thing- the customer is the seller, not the buyer. The job of an auction house is to maximize the price the seller gets. Fact. People always complain about changes that benefit the AH, who make a commission off the sale, or benefit sellers, but the seller is exactly who the AH is working for, not the buyers.

[doug.goodman]

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by dariushou

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

I agree with this.

From the perspective of a seller/consignor, I also understand the fair points made by the other camp. For myself, as both a buyer and seller, therein lies the hypocrisy!

[darwinbulldog]

Looks like the consensus is this will bring prices down, so I'm all for it.

[Rich Klein]

But my friend Beau is an EBay live seller and explained on a BUISNESS reason why he thought this move was long overdue for EBay about extended bidding.

And, to be honest, if you really want the item, you'll still bid on it. What is the expression in here: Stuff Trumps All!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fu_27-8fFQ

Regards
Rich

[Leon]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

I snipe because I am not going to be glued to eBay. I win a fair amount and will win a lot, lot less if there is no sniping. They will do analytics after they test and make a decision. If losing bidders like myself doesn't hurt them as much as it helps the seller, and the seller is happy, that is all that counts. "Money" is almost always the answer.
As said, eBay's customers are their sellers. But if even more people leave than have in the recent few years, then more sellers might leave.

[Leon]

According to this thread, there are 3 reasons.

3 - Not being glued to eBay.
Buyers that only want something, but don't HAVE, to have it, like myself...just won't spend as much. That is a 100% certainty, where I am concerned.

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by dariushou

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

eBay is 24/7/365 and as such is a dynamic experience. Auction houses have catalogs that have a limited amount of items that end on a particular day.

I am not as smart as most who have posted that it will be great or horrible for sellers. I just know that most people hate change. Many people hate eBay and their changes usually screw up the site and lastly, nothing has ever stopped a collector from trying to buy something that they want. If we can all overlook blatant fraud and still bid, a little change like this should not be an obstacle.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

If an auction house ends their auction at 2 am, yes, I am not bidding in extended bidding in those auctions. And therein lies the difference between ebay and an auction house. It's not an insignificant difference.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

eBay is 24/7/365 and as such is a dynamic experience. Auction houses have catalogs that have a limited amount of items that end on a particular day.

I am not as smart as most who have posted that it will be great or horrible for sellers. I just know that most people hate change. Many people hate eBay and their changes usually screw up the site and lastly, nothing has ever stopped a collector from trying to buy something that they want. If we can all overlook blatant fraud and still bid, a little change like this should not be an obstacle.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

If an auction house ends their auction at 2 am, yes, I am not bidding in extended bidding in those auctions. And therein lies the difference between ebay and an auction house. It's not an insignificant difference.

No one says you have to stay up until 2AM because that's when extended bidding lasts until. All auctions that I am aware of allow you to place a maximum bid that will be bid up to automatically if necessary to keep you as the high bidder. If you don't want to bid that way because you're worried about shill bidding, that's your decision.

As for the comment about people hating change, you're definitely right about that. There were plenty of threads in the past about eBay not doing anything about fake items being listed. As soon as they introduced the authenticity guarantee, there were plenty of threads complaining about it. While it's not perfect, I would guess it has cut down considerably on fake items being sold. Similarly, I'd be surprised if switching to an extended bidding format will really impact prices negatively. For all the people who say they won't bid any more or will bid less, there will be many others who will bid more and higher because they have the chance to keep bidding to win something they really want. That's the psychology of an auction that leads people to pay more than they were planning in the first place.