Csa show

[Huck]

I attended the show today. The plan was to go yesterday to see Chipper Jones, but after a morning event, I just bagged the idea. Clearly, I am slowing down. I had no intention of going today, but my teenage son hinted at wanting to go so we went. One thing that really stood out this show, Pokemon everywhere! Pokemon is at least 25% of the tables and growing like kudzu. The floor was busy. Quite a few dealers with partially empty cases so sales must have been good. Sad news, Lin Terry (supplies) selling his business over the next year. Guy has been at CSA and other venues for decades.

There was a smattering of prewar available but not a ton.

The collector who sold the $500K Jayden Daniels card to the Commanders owner was there.

$20 entry fee seemed high, CSA is not the National and had I known there would be so much Pokemon I might have passed. Since my son was with me, the attendant stating "That will be $40." took me aback. I am usually solo.

Clearly, CSA just wants to sell tables, so I don't see a Pokemon ban coming. Is there a clear market for a vintage only show in the DMV? I don't know. Perhaps, sports cards and Pokemon coexist until Pokemon takes over and does it own thing.

I purchased some supplies and my son and I ate at Willard's before heading home. It was a good day, except for the Pokemon overload.

[Natswin2019]

I went to the show on Friday. The amount of pokemon didn't seem like there was that much more than usual that I noticed. There did seem to be more vintage than last time but less than usual. The one thing I have noticed at the last 2 shows is the amount of giant buying signs at almost every table it seems like. Those signs paired with a dude behind empty tables/cases seem to have creeped in more and more over the last 2 shows.

I did make 1 pick up this show a Clark Griffith Port PSA 4

[Knightlax5]

I spoke to multiple dealers on Friday. The reason their cases were empty at 3 pm on Friday was because repackers came in and bought entire show cases out at 95%. I don't blame dealers for selling at 95%.

This bears the question of will this be the case at the national. I fear if you don't have a dealer badge to get in Wednesday morning or Tuesday, most worth while deals will be gone before the general public can see them, at least for modern. I'm very nervous the repacking racket will creep in to vintage and pre war.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Natswin2019

I went to the show on Friday. The amount of pokemon didn't seem like there was that much more than usual that I noticed. There did seem to be more vintage than last time but less than usual. The one thing I have noticed at the last 2 shows is the amount of giant buying signs at almost every table it seems like. Those signs paired with a dude behind empty tables/cases seem to have creeped in more and more over the last 2 shows.

I did make 1 pick up this show a Clark Griffith Port PSA 4

Nice card.

To me there seemed to be a ton of Pokemon at this show. It was interesting to see sports card dealers with one case of Pokemon cards. I spoke to one dealer who stated "I sold $10K worth of Clemente cards and needed something to fill the case." Pokemon aside, there were other non-sports cards as well (ex. Disney, celebrity signed cards). I noticed the "Always buying" signs as well. Also, "Smile you are on camera" has increased as well. There is no question that the card collecting hobby is hot, especially Pokemon!

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

I spoke to multiple dealers on Friday. The reason their cases were empty at 3 pm on Friday was because repackers came in and bought entire show cases out at 95%. I don't blame dealers for selling at 95%.

This bears the question of will this be the case at the national. I fear if you don't have a dealer badge to get in Wednesday morning or Tuesday, most worth while deals will be gone before the general public can see them, at least for modern. I'm very nervous the repacking racket will creep in to vintage and pre war.

Interesting. It was puzzling to see dealer cases with less than a dozen cards displayed. There was one dealer with one case on his table with I swear six cards displayed. Given the table cost, it was puzzling why he did not have additional inventory. I don't think it will be a major issue at the National. Those who repack don't have bottomless funds and the National is what 3,4,5 times larger than CSA?

The number of graded cards in bargain bin boxes was surprising as well. Are the TPA's opening packs and grading every card? There were gem mint cards of players I had never heard of. Every card no matter the level of talent seems to be sent in for grading. One dealer had an offer of $100 for 30 plus graded 1983 Topps cards. I did the math, 30 cards at an average of $15 or so to grade and offered up at $100. My toxic side of being a future dealer almost scooped them up but I quickly came to my senses.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

I spoke to multiple dealers on Friday. The reason their cases were empty at 3 pm on Friday was because repackers came in and bought entire show cases out at 95%. I don't blame dealers for selling at 95%.

This bears the question of will this be the case at the national. I fear if you don't have a dealer badge to get in Wednesday morning or Tuesday, most worth while deals will be gone before the general public can see them, at least for modern. I'm very nervous the repacking racket will creep in to vintage and pre war.

What are repackers? If they're paying 95% of listed prices, how are they making enough money if their plan is to flip What they just bought? Am I missing something?

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jayshum

What are repackers? If they're paying 95% of listed prices, how are they making enough money if their plan is to flip What they just bought? Am I missing something?

"Repacking in card collecting involves a third-party assembling packs or boxes of cards from various sources, often offering a mix of common and potentially valuable chase cards. These repacks are a popular trend, especially with the rising cost of traditional sealed products and the growth of online breaking. They provide a way for collectors to potentially obtain valuable cards at a lower cost than buying directly from manufacturers or high-end dealers."

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Huck

"Repacking in card collecting involves a third-party assembling packs or boxes of cards from various sources, often offering a mix of common and potentially valuable chase cards. These repacks are a popular trend, especially with the rising cost of traditional sealed products and the growth of online breaking. They provide a way for collectors to potentially obtain valuable cards at a lower cost than buying directly from manufacturers or high-end dealers."

Thanks for the info, but if they're paying dealers 95% of their listed prices, I still don't understand how the repacked cards can be sold so that both buyers are saving money and repackers are making money. There's only a 5% margin to work with. Am I still missing something?

[ValKehl]

Dean, the admission price to the Chantilly Show was $15 if you purchased you admission online in advance of the Show (the cutoff for this discount was something like 2 days before the Show opens). It wasn't too long ago that the Show promoter gave free admission on Friday to Net54 members.

I thought the amount of pre-War and post-War vintage cards was about the same as it has been for the last few/several shows (and I do go to all the Chantilly Shows, mostly because I live nearby) - and, pretty much the same dealers with vintage cards.

My only pickup was a relatively inexpensive 1924 WS program - NY Giants version that is in comparable low condition to the 1924 Washington Senators version that I have long had. My only disappointment was that SGC was not in attendance as that have been for the last many shows, but I had learned this in advance; I'll save my sub for the next Chantilly Show, assuming/hoping SGC will be there, as I prefer not to risk shipping my cards to SGC.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Thanks for the info, but if they're paying dealers 95% of their listed prices, I still don't understand how the repacked cards can be sold so that both buyers are saving money and repackers are making money. There's only a 5% margin to work with. Am I still missing something?

They are not working on a 5% margin.

Let's say one of the card companies is selling a box for $200 a pop with odds listed for chase cards. A repacker, buys the various chase cards at 95% (or less) of value and repackage those cards at say a price of $175 (or lower) a pop. The reputable repackers or card/box breakers will state odds but it is not required.

At $30 a throw, you don't think there is no money to be made on 70's repacks?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15691496865...SABEgK9vfD_BwE

In my toxic visions of being a future dealer, I thought mystery packs would be a great idea. I have seen something like it in shows past but nothing recent. I would purchase a play-pen and load it with 10-15 card packs wrapped in brown paper with a minimum value of $1. On a board, there would be a list of say 10-15 high value cards (ex. 1968 PSA 5 Mantle - value $375-$400) that could be pulled. Let's say the 10-15 higher value cards total $3K. There are 5,000 $1 packs in the playpen. I think collectors would eat that up. Do you see how money can be made? The repackers are doing the same thing.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dean, the admission price to the Chantilly Show was $15 if you purchased you admission online in advance of the Show (the cutoff for this discount was something like 2 days before the Show opens). It wasn't too long ago that the Show promoter gave free admission on Friday to Net54 members.

I thought the amount of pre-War and post-War vintage cards was about the same as it has been for the last few/several shows (and I do go to all the Chantilly Shows, mostly because I live nearby) - and, pretty much the same dealers with vintage cards.

My only pickup was a relatively inexpensive 1924 WS program - NY Giants version that is in comparable low condition to the 1924 Washington Senators version that I have long had. My only disappointment was that SGC was not in attendance as that have been for the last many shows, but I had learned this in advance; I'll save my sub for the next Chantilly Show, assuming/hoping SGC will be there, as I prefer not to risk shipping my cards to SGC.

I know, but CSA is always a last minute call. I live within a forty-minute drive of Chantilly which means I live 8 miles away from the venue. If you live here you know. Admission used to be $10 and as you stated, Fridays were free. I don't see how card shows were hit with supply chain issues during covid which increased admission to $20. I arrived at noon and there was a small line to get in. In front of me was a woman with a 12-13 year old son with a small hard top case in hand. I said to myself "CSA should state Mom's get in free" or bring a kid(s) admission is half off. That was a $40 entry fee for her and her son. I don't think Mom was there to buy or sell cards. A male or female with kids in tow is a good thing. Did you notice the 3% fee for credit or online orders? That was new to me. At $20 does the extra sixty-cents make or break CSA? The world is becoming a cashless society and CSA states "Please note a 3.5% service fee will be applied to all orders (both online and onsite)." How does one pre-order online with cash???? Just price the 3% in (and at $20 the 3% should be priced in). No let's suck every possible dime out of the collector.

This was the first time I have seen PSA onsite. Due to lack of baseball guests, I
I have passed on the majority of CSA shows the past 2-3 years.

My only purchase was some soft sleeves and hard cases for pennants. Damn Net54 and the pennant forum!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

I spoke to multiple dealers on Friday. The reason their cases were empty at 3 pm on Friday was because repackers came in and bought entire show cases out at 95%. I don't blame dealers for selling at 95%.

This bears the question of will this be the case at the national. I fear if you don't have a dealer badge to get in Wednesday morning or Tuesday, most worth while deals will be gone before the general public can see them, at least for modern. I'm very nervous the repacking racket will creep in to vintage and pre war.

That's not happening to the vintage guys like Dan Mckee, Stan Loch, Ash Jain, Tom Botticelli and many others.

[swarmee]

The repackers are a couple of different breeds.

Some are grading everything and now there are graded card slot machines.

Most will just add hit cards to boxes that sell for $200. If they pack an average of $100 in value in each box (i.e. $50 each on most boxes but $1,000 card in every 20), they'll still sell like hotcakes to the gamblers and they still make 100% profit when they sell.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Natswin2019

I did make 1 pick up this show a Clark Griffith Port PSA 4

What a gorgeous card!

[skelly]

As stated earlier, lots of people set up simply looking to buy cards. Two thoughts on this- should these people be set up away from the tables in a specific section of the show, rather than being mixed in. The other thought, which may not be popular, is for 80-90% of a cards value, why would you not sell to these outfits. Let’s say you have a PSA 5 Willie Mays Topps card that sells for about $300.00. You could sell it to someone who is set up to buy, get $250 cash on the spot. I don’t see how you would net more in say the Robert Edwards monthly auction, the buyer is going to factor the now 23% buyers premium, sales tax and shipping cost into their bid. So you can get cash on the spot, or you can wait a couple months to get the same money in many cases.

I think the people set up to just buy have a good business model.

[ALBB]

Sadly, for most " old timers".. thats the future of large shows !

[Knightlax5]

Originally Posted by skelly

As stated earlier, lots of people set up simply looking to buy cards. Two thoughts on this- should these people be set up away from the tables in a specific section of the show, rather than being mixed in. The other thought, which may not be popular, is for 80-90% of a cards value, why would you not sell to these outfits. Let’s say you have a PSA 5 Willie Mays Topps card that sells for about $300.00. You could sell it to someone who is set up to buy, get $250 cash on the spot. I don’t see how you would net more in say the Robert Edwards monthly auction, the buyer is going to factor the now 23% buyers premium, sales tax and shipping cost into their bid. So you can get cash on the spot, or you can wait a couple months to get the same money in many cases.

I think the people set up to just buy have a good business model.

I agree for lower value cards, but for high end vintage (+$1,000) auction houses or ebay consignors are still the way to go. A PSA 3 Hank Aaron rookie card is likely not going to be in a repack because it would cost too much for the repacker's margins

[bandrus1]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

I agree for lower value cards, but for high end vintage (+$1,000) auction houses or ebay consignors are still the way to go. A PSA 3 Hank Aaron rookie card is likely not going to be in a repack because it would cost too much for the repacker's margins

Maybe not repack but that's the kind of card that is definitely in raffle style breaks

[peanuts]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Thanks for the info, but if they're paying dealers 95% of their listed prices, I still don't understand how the repacked cards can be sold so that both buyers are saving money and repackers are making money. There's only a 5% margin to work with. Am I still missing something?

They make money by overcharging for the floor value of the product – e.g. the cheapest card in the product is $75 but buying the repack costs $115 – and on pure volume. I used to move a couple thousand worth of inventory to a repacker every month and it was only about 10% of what his monthly buying volume.

Also, 95% is on the higher side of what repackers will pay. Typically they're around 90% of average comp.

[ncinin]

I can not find it offhand but I saw a YouTube video in the past month that displayed a spreadsheet of one of the breakers.

The cost of breaks were 95% of “comps”. I am not sure the comps were high or low to reality or not. The slots were were sold out and break was completed and the breaker sold the cards over 150% or comps.

If I recall cost was between $90,000 and $99,000 and their gross profit was $56,000 or so. I do nor know the platform fees or other expenses were.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by ncinin

I can not find it offhand but I saw a YouTube video in the past month that displayed a spreadsheet of one of the breakers.

The cost of breaks were 95% of “comps”. I am not sure the comps were high or low to reality or not. The slots were were sold out and break was completed and the breaker sold the cards over 150% or comps.

If I recall cost was between $90,000 and $99,000 and their gross profit was $56,000 or so. I do nor know the platform fees or other expenses were.

I wonder what dealers who unloaded their inventories to repackers will do now? Rebuild or go fishing.