The National: Is 4 hrs. enough on Wednesday?

[Brent G.]

First-time attendee question: The non-VIP hours for the Wednesday sneak peak are 4-8 p.m. Is this enough time to see all the vintage tables, or am I better off going on Thursday? Is everyone already set up by this time, or are some still rolling in?

I'm going again on Saturday (mostly for one autograph signing), but want to catch an early day as well since it seems that day is a mad house.

[Gradedcardman]

If you have a set agenda of what you are looking for then Wednesday is not bad. Most of the bigger dealers are headed in earlier in the week and set up on Tuesday. The smaller dealers will be getting ready and maybe not as "welcome" to negotiating as they need to get set up.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I think you'll find 4 hours woefully inadequate.

[Lucas00]

I walked the whole 2022 national in about 3 hours pretty easily. I glance at tables and instantly know if I want to stop or not. I only went to find cool rare stuff and 90% of tables were glance, and skip. So that definitely helped.

It really depends what you're going for.. If it's for one of the same 40 cards every vintage dealer has 10 of it might take a full day. Eg koufax rookie, mantles Aarons etc.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I walked the whole 2022 national in about 3 hours pretty easily. I glance at tables and instantly know if I want to stop or not. I only went to find cool rare stuff and 90% of tables were glance, and skip. So that definitely helped.

It really depends what you're going for.. If it's for one of the same 40 cards every vintage dealer has 10 of it might take a full day. Eg koufax rookie, mantles Aarons etc.

Thanks for the assessment -- I'm primarily looking for Jim Thorpe, so that's pretty narrow.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Thanks for the assessment -- I'm primarily looking for Jim Thorpe, so that's pretty narrow.

If that's all you're looking for, you won't even need the 4 hours. In and out in less than two, I surmise.

I only sought vintage autographs when I used to attend, so was in a similar sort of timeframe. As the previous poster said, it took a nanosecond to tell if a table was worth stopping at or not.

[Jewish-collector]

It depends on what you are looking for. If what you're looking for are just Jim Thorpe cards, then you should be able to go thru all the tables fairly quickly.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

It depends on what you are looking for. If what you're looking for are just Jim Thorpe cards, then you should be able to go thru all the tables fairly quickly.

That's my intended mission ... but that could always be swayed due to rare eye candy.

[OhioLawyerF5]

I would say if you are looking for Jim Thorpe, you'll need MORE time, not less. You will need to stop and look for that needle in a haystack at every vintage table. And you absolutely can't stop and look at every vintage table in one day. There will be literally hundreds of vintage tables. If you even stop to dig through cards at a fraction of them, it will be many hours. I was looking for very rare 90s cards last year, which are super easy to spot from a distance. So I could mostly just scan the tables and it took 2 full days to see it all. 2 years ago I only wanted one specific card: 1967 Tom Seaver. It's a card that dozens of dealers had. But it took a full day to see them all and narrow it down to the one I want.

[skelly]

It could be enough time, depends on the kind of shape you are in / how quickly you want to navigate / be aggressive as far as getting the attention of dealers. Also depends on how crowded it will be. You might want to play it safe and give yourself more time. To go all the way out there, you don’t want to have any regrets or thoughts that you might have missed something.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by skelly

It could be enough time, depends on the kind of shape you are in / how quickly you want to navigate / be aggressive as far as getting the attention of dealers. Also depends on how crowded it will be. You might want to play it safe and give yourself more time. To go all the way out there, you don’t want to have any regrets or thoughts that you might have missed something.

Pretty easy to identify whose selling vintage and not the shiny recent stuff.

[notfast]

No.

Not at all. I have a very unique focus and you need to look at every booth including a quick once over of the modern booths because they could have someone in the corner of a showcase.

[shoreball51]

If you want to not feel rushed as you look Ithink 4 hours is not enough time. Also keep in mind you may encounter a line to enter so you may not actually have 4 hours.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Pretty easy to identify whose selling vintage and not the shiny recent stuff.

That does nothing but cut the show in half. Now all he has to do is look closely at around 500 tables for a needle in a haystack. He'll need all day....at least.

[JollyElm]

I can't get through a single table at a show in four hours, because I'm too busy talking people up and looking for cool cardboard adventures.

The more time you're able to give yourself, the better. Being overly rushed is not the way to go at these things.

[CardPadre]

I wouldn't think you need to spend a ton of time at each vintage table scanning for Thorpe stuff. Just quickly ask the dealer if they have any...that's something they will instantly know. Or carry a sign around that says "Thorpe?" and flash it to every dealer you pass and get a nod or a shake. EZ.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That does nothing but cut the show in half. Now all he has to do is look closely at around 500 tables for a needle in a haystack. He'll need all day....at least.

Wow — I guess I have no idea of the scope. I’ve been to the November and March shows at Donald Stephens the last couple years since I got back into the hobby, and it’s a pretty quick.

[Lucas00]

Lots of this also depends on health and mobility. Ability to weave between people, not spend 45 minutes on a bathroom run 4 times. Etc etc. People saying its not enough time is for themselves, because I can tell you for me it was plenty. So it's person to person .

[Jewish-collector]

It also depends on what grade Jim Thorpe cards you're looking for. If it's all high grade you want, those cards will be in dealers' show cases and you'll be able to go thru every table quite quickly & easily and be done within an hour. If you want low grade cards, you may have to dig thru the dealers' binders, boxes, piles, etc,... and that will probably take the entire Wed-Sun of the National.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Wow — I guess I have no idea of the scope. I’ve been to the November and March shows at Donald Stephens the last couple years since I got back into the hobby, and it’s a pretty quick.

Not even remotely the same situation. The National dwarfs those shows.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Not even remotely the same situation. The National dwarfs those shows.

Thursday it is then. Appreciate all the insight.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Let us know how much time you actually required and what your plan of attack turned out to be.

Just as everybody's amount of time will vary depending on their purpose for being at the show, methods of operation will also differ from person to person.

As one poster brought up, you never know if some mostly modern dealer might have some vintage tucked away in a corner, but you have to consider how much time you actually have and calculate the very low odds of finding a pre-War Jim Thorpe card from someone who uses the word "refractor" in every other sentence. I wouldn't waste even a second in asking, while others will spend the entire week at the show because they can not help themselves in checking at every single booth. Yes, people have found good items because of such persistence, but I'd prefer to get out of a show as fast as possible rather than subject myself to that degree of tedium. Not for me. To me, that's equatable to going into a Tesla dealership and asking if they have any Hummers for sale. More power to anyone who finds their needle in a haystack that way; you deserve it for your hard work!

[OhioLawyerF5]

I guess I just enjoy sports cards, so spending all day looking at them isn't tedium to me. Different strokes for different folks.

[BRoberts]

Clearly, each person has his own definition of tedium.

[Snapolit1]

Or you ask the dealer if he has what you are looking for.

Not exactly comparable, but if I am looking for Lou Gehrig type 1 photos I could
Cover the National easily in 4 hours.




QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;2522452]That does nothing but cut the show in half. Now all he has to do is look closely at around 500 tables for a needle in a haystack. He'll need all day....at least.[/QUOTE]

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Or you ask the dealer if he has what you are looking for.

Not exactly comparable, but if I am looking for Lou Gehrig type 1 photos I could
Cover the National easily in 4 hours.

If that's how you feel about a show, why go at all? Just shop on ebay or auction houses. You'll find a lot more there. Most people don't go to a card show to do all they can to avoid looking at cards.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

If that's how you feel about a show, why go at all? Just shop on ebay or auction houses. You'll find a lot more there. Most people don't go to a card show to do all they can to avoid looking at cards.

Yeah, the dealers at these shows are such fascinating people. . . I wish I had days on end to chew the fat with them and experience their BO and lousy personal hygiene in all its glory.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, the dealers at these shows are such fascinating people. . . I wish I had days on end to chew the fat with them and experience their BO and lousy personal hygiene in all its glory.

Serious question. How many times have you gone to the National? and When?

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, the dealers at these shows are such fascinating people. . . I wish I had days on end to chew the fat with them and experience their BO and lousy personal hygiene in all its glory.

Most of bathe at least every other day. I even shave once or twice.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Serious question. How many times have you gone to the National? and When?

4. 2 x in Chicago, 2 in AC.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

4. 2 x in Chicago, 2 in AC.

And you actually experienced smelly dealers? Or was that just playing to a meme?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, the dealers at these shows are such fascinating people. . . I wish I had days on end to chew the fat with them and experience their BO and lousy personal hygiene in all its glory.

For every dealer I'd prefer not to be around or talk to at a show, there's probably at least 100 collectors that are worse.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

And you actually experienced smelly dealers? Or was that just playing to a meme?

I met some dealers who seemed like great guys. Hello Howard C. and others. I also met many dealers who seemed like they needed a shower, an unstained t shirt that fit, and a stick of deodorant.

Playing to a meme? Maybe partly. But after you've been to a bunch of shows, there just isn't as much ooohinh and ahhing as you might think. By the time I got to my last National they only real eye candy I saw was at the Heritage, LOTG, and other AH booths. A lot of the same vintage being sold over and over. And a lot of dealers are surprisingly rude and unhelpful. Precious few "holy shit. . . I've never seen that before" moments. Needle in a haystack? If there is one it will likely be gone before you walk through the door.

Not saying don't go. For me now worth the downside. The East Coast National and Philly show work for me.

If anyone wants to get a Playboy model at their booth in an ill-fitting t shirt, I might consider a return visit. I will even overlook any body odor.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I met some dealers who seemed like great guys. Hello Howard C. and others. I also met many dealers who seemed like they needed a shower, an unstained t shirt that fit, and a stick of deodorant.

Playing to a meme? Maybe partly. But after you've been to a bunch of shows, there just isn't as much ooohinh and ahhing as you might think. By the time I got to my last National they only real eye candy I saw was at the Heritage, LOTG, and other AH booths. A lot of the same vintage being sold over and over. And a lot of dealers are surprisingly rude and unhelpful. Precious few "holy shit. . . I've never seen that before" moments. Needle in a haystack? If there is one it will likely be gone before you walk through the door.

Not saying don't go. For me now worth the downside. The East Coast National and Philly show work for me.

If anyone wants to get a Playboy model at their booth in an ill-fitting t shirt, I might consider a return visit. I will even overlook any body odor.

To each their own. I'm glad you find ways to enjoy your hobby. I go to a dozen or more shows a year and the national every single year and enjoy spending days walking around the show and looking at cards, digging through boxes, and just having a good time. Obviously, that isn't the case for everyone. But if I am looking for something specific, I have always had a much better time finding it at the national than those other regional shows.

[conor912]

Even the VIP entry is a madhouse. I had a dealer pass last time I went so I got in on Tuesday. Wednesday when the doors opened for VIPs there was a tsunami of doughy middle-aged white guys with backpacks as far as the eye could see.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I know I've posted this before, but in the tiny bit I get to walk around I always see interesting items (at dealers, not just at evil auction houses) and good buys. Yes if you are looking for something specific I guess the National is more of a chore than a pleasure, but man if you can take the time there is absolutely amazing stuff that is actually for sale and there are absolutely bargains to be had, even if those two categories rarely overlap.

One of my all time favorites was only a few years ago a dealer had an almost entirely reconstructed Buchner Gold Coin Advertising poster. He was missing 3 or 4 cards, and they all fit exactly. It wasn't just a case of finding the right player's cards, these were very likely all cut apart from each other to line up as well as they did. Absolutely blew my mind.

[brian1961]

Brent, you've gotten some excellent advice and opinions. While the shows in the early spring and fall at the Donald Stephens Convention Center are huge, you will be aghast and overwhelmed by the immensity of the National Show. For one, many more tables of vendors. For two, a kazillion collectors that are vying for space to also look with you. A lot of time will be eaten up by just getting into position to gaze, study, and discern.

My personal idea is to wear a dark t-shirt, and have 8 X 10 white cardboard signs pinned to the front and back of your shirt. NEATLY printed in 2-inch block letters:

LOOKING FOR JIM THORPE ITEMS.

Friend, it is all about communication. You never know whose eyes will read your signs, and have precisely what you're looking for, as long as what they have is available. Be friendly to everyone who responds, and say "thanks anyway" if a person comes up zero. That guy might just run into a chap that has an impossible dream Thorpe item, and tell him about you.

Another idea, have some creative-looking business-type cards to hand out to anyone who either has something, or knows someone who does. You will save lots of time and potential heartache by gratefully passing out your card. It will be cumbersome and difficult to give them your address and have them write it down...... So, Brent, your time is limited, make the most of it and be ready to meet someone who's got Mr. Thorpe items, or someone who definitely knows someone who does, and who may be set up at the show!

Wishing you the best, sir. --- Brian Powell

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Brent, you've gotten some excellent advice and opinions. While the shows in the early spring and fall at the Donald Stephens Convention Center are huge, you will be aghast and overwhelmed by the immensity of the National Show. For one, many more tables of vendors. For two, a kazillion collectors that are vying for space to also look with you. A lot of time will be eaten up by just getting into position to gaze, study, and discern.

My personal idea is to wear a dark t-shirt, and have 8 X 10 white cardboard signs pinned to the front and back of your shirt. NEATLY printed in 2-inch block letters:

LOOKING FOR JIM THORPE ITEMS.

Friend, it is all about communication. You never know whose eyes will read your signs, and have precisely what you're looking for, as long as what they have is available. Be friendly to everyone who responds, and say "thanks anyway" if a person comes up zero. That guy might just run into a chap that has an impossible dream Thorpe item, and tell him about you.

Another idea, have some creative-looking business-type cards to hand out to anyone who either has something, or knows someone who does. You will save lots of time and potential heartache by gratefully passing out your card. It will be cumbersome and difficult to give them your address and have them write it down...... So, Brent, your time is limited, make the most of it and be ready to meet someone who's got Mr. Thorpe items, or someone who definitely knows someone who does, and who may be set up at the show!

Wishing you the best, sir. --- Brian Powell

GREAT stuff, Brian -- thank you! I have some old lanyards that would do that sign job perfectly.