Juan Soto -- looking like a bust for the Mets

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Were they deep thinkers they'd add the codicil "And so do we!"



Mets fans might help me out here by updating this thread with ticket prices for these years:

2020 (pre Cohen):
2024 (pre-Soto):
2025:
2026:
2027:
2028:
.
.
.

This post is nonsensical. The owner of the team, Steve Cohen owns the Mets as a hobby, not as a profit-making business. So ticket prices don't mean a whole lot to him. He is trying to maximize his fun. What about this don't you understand?

Also, I don't know that you've noticed, but the Mets, despite being swept recently still have the best record in in the National League. Part of this success has to do with Soto getting on base more than anyone else in the National League not named Ohtani.

Last, do you end all of your posts with "" because you think your posts are clever or funny?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

This post is nonsensical. The owner of the team, Steve Cohen owns the Mets as a hobby, not as a profit-making business. So ticket prices don't mean a whole lot to him.

Your objection is nonsensical. While ticket prices don't mean a whole lot to Steve Cohen, the point is that they mean a whole lot to the average fan. And so do concession prices. For whatever reason you neglected to address this point in your response.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

He is trying to maximize his fun. What about this don't you understand?

Who says I don't? What you don't seem to understand is that I'm on the side of the average fan and not Steve Cohen's.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Also, I don't know that you've noticed, but the Mets, despite being swept recently still have the best record in in the National League. Part of this success has to do with Soto getting on base more than anyone else in the National League not named Ohtani.

Which of the two earns more though? I believe it's Soto.

And how does Soto's pay compare to the average pay for the hitters/fielders on the Mets' team? Isn't it something like 10X higher? But is Soto 10x better?

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Last, do you end all of your posts with ""....

No, not even in this thread.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

...because you think your posts are clever or funny?

Only the few that may be clever or funny.



And before leaping to such unfounded conclusions you might check my other posts rather than getting so hot and bothered about me implying that Juan Soto is way overpaid.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Your objection is nonsensical. While ticket prices don't mean a whole lot to Steve Cohen, the point is that they mean a whole lot to the average fan. And so do concession prices. For whatever reason you neglected to address this point in your response.



Who says I don't? What you don't seem to understand is that I'm on the side of the average fan and not Steve Cohen's.



Which of the two earns more though? I believe it's Soto.

And how does Soto's pay compare to the average pay for the hitters/fielders on the Mets' team? Isn't it something like 10X higher? But is Soto 10x better?



No, not even in this thread.



Only the few that may be clever or funny.



And before leaping to such unfounded conclusions you might check my other posts rather than getting so hot and bothered about me implying that Juan Soto is way overpaid.

Wow, that was a lot of effort on your part.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make (in less than 100 words)?

Are you trying to say that Steve Cohen is jacking up the cost of concessions and tickets in order to make up for the money he is paying Juan Soto?

And do you, or do you not understand why Juan Soto's contract was so large?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Wow, that was a lot of effort on your part.

Indeed it was. Be nice if you did likewise on occasion.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make (in less than 100 words)?

That Juan Soto is egregiously overpaid given what he adds to the Mets team. (14 words)

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Are you trying to say that Steve Cohen is jacking up the cost of concessions and tickets in order to make up for the money he is paying Juan Soto?

Yes, that's what I suspect. And once again it would be nice if you addressed that point instead of engaging in personal attacks.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

And do you, or do you not understand why Juan Soto's contract was so large?

I do NOT understand why Juan Soto was awarded such a large contract. In Steve Cohen's position I would not have done so.

But I've already very clearly made these points in this thread. Why are you asking me to repeat myself? What the hell is it that you still fail to understand?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Indeed it was. Be nice if you did likewise on occasion.



That Juan Soto is egregiously overpaid given what he adds to the Mets team. (14 words)



Yes, that's what I suspect. And once again it would be nice if you addressed that point instead of engaging in personal attacks.



I do NOT understand why Juan Soto was awarded such a large contract. In Steve Cohen's position I would not have done so.

But I've already very clearly made these points in this thread. Why are you asking me to repeat myself? What the hell is it that you still fail to understand?

I don't think it is any secret why Juan Soto set a record contract.

These are a few reasons: He is only 26 years old, but still has an incredible body of work that suggests there are many years of top-tier performance ahead of him. Few have ever accomplished as much as he has at such an early age. A few examples of his accomplishments: a) 26 multi-homer games, which is tied with Jimmie Foxx for the most ever before turning 27 (he turns 27 on October 25th) b) He is one of 17 players to record 1,000 hits and 200 homers before his 27th birthday. He’s the only player in that age bracket to also reach 800 walks c) He was the youngest player in National League history to win a batting title (2020 at age 21) d) His career On Base Percentage of .419 puts him at #22 ever, ahead of players like Stan Musial, Wade Boggs, or Aaron Judge. e) I know you don't care about new-fangled stats like WAR or OPS+ but his numbers are off the charts. His career OPS+ of 159 is ahead of Hank Aaron, Shohei Ohtani and Joe DiMaggio, and means he has hit 59% better than his peers. f) his WAR is already 39.7, which puts him at #21 of all active players. The only other person that is close to that and is in their 20s is Ronald Acuna Jr. at 27.6 WAR and age 27. While you don't care about WAR, I can assure that MVP voters, and player evaluators do.


But there are also many intangibles that make Soto valuable to a franchise. He is extremely popular among fans. As of March 31st, Soto ranks 3rd in popularity for jersey sales behind Ohtani, Freeman, and ahead of Betts and Judge.

Soto is a big part of the reason that the Mets are having huge ticket sales. In the 9 days after Soto signed with the Mets, the club saw "across-the-board boosts in both single-game and season-ticket sales. Among the key results:

A club record for the opening day of single-game ticket sales on Dec. 9. The revenue total, though not disclosed, surpassed the comparable day last year within the first 45 minutes of availability and ultimately tripled the 2023 figure.
A doubling in single-game ticket sales for the 2025 regular season for the Dec. 9–15 period compared to the opening week of single-game sales for 2024.
A doubling in 2025 spring training ticket sales for the Dec. 9–15 period compared to the prior week.
A sellout of Delta Sky360° Club at Citi Field, with the club moving in recent days to create a waiting list."

As of June 13, the Mets have the biggest home attendance increase of any team in MLB.

When Othani and Judge signed their mega-deals, they were older than Soto is. Ohtani is currently 30 (and signed his megadeal at 29) and I believe Judge was 30 when he signed his deal.

As for your musings (without any evidence) that Steve Cohen has jacked up the cost of concessions or ticket costs since signing Soto, I would just say that ticket sales are mostly a function of supply and demand, so I'm sure ticket prices have gone up in the secondary market. I have not found any evidence that they have gone up in price in the primary market, but they may have, at least to cover inflation.

But as mentioned many times before in this thread, the cost of concessions and ticket sales is not a huge concern to an owner that is worth 21.3 Billion

Here is a link to Mets ticket prices from 2006 - 2024. Cohen bought the Mets in 2020, so he doesn't have a track record of raising prices. Surprisingly, this article says the Mets median ticket price is below average, and even lower than the Rockies.

[Balticfox]

Congratulations! You've finally shown yourself capable of addressing the the points of contention (even if you did use a "few" more than 100 words). A bit late now after your previous gratuitous jibes:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

This post is nonsensical.

Last, do you end all of your posts with "" because you think your posts are clever or funny?

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Wow, that was a lot of effort on your part.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make (in less than 100 words)?

I guess for whatever reason you decided to make me your enemy first. Okay. So be it.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

As for your musings (without any evidence)....

My "musings" (as you put it) consisted of asking Mets fans whether there was evidence. Asking is considered to be reasonable in most circles.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I don't think it is any secret why Juan Soto set a record contract.

Not by any means a secret. The signing was clearly an ego trip on the part of an owner to whom money is no object.

But it's bad for the team on a longer term basis (after several months of a season anyway). The contract becomes a cancer in the locker room. How is a manager going to discipline a player with that type of contract when he's not producing or even dogging it? He can't be pencilled out of the lineup because the club has too great of an investment in the player. Just by yelling at him or kicking his butt then? That doesn't much work on today's superstars. And then the other players start wondering why the pampered superstar is earning 25X the money when he's not 25x better. Like I say, that type of contract is a cancer in the locker room.

It's also bad for fans. How/why? Because the Juan Soto signing is going to fuel further player salary inflation which will in turn result in ticket and concession price inflation.

I know, I know, some of you will object by saying that will only be so if other owners follow suit. But they'll have to follow suit. The last time the owners decided not to bid up salaries by chasing free agents, the courts in their "wisdom" ruled collusion thus dictating that owners must bid ever higher for star players or risk jail as well as fines. And that's not been good for the fans or MLB in general.

[Snapolit1]

Every night on the Mets broadcast they show some insane statistic about how Juan Soto's productivity at his age is like top 5 in baseball history at some metric, how he's just behind Jimmy Foxx in something. To minimize what this guy has accomplished at his age and deny that he is a generational talent just shows your absolute ignorance.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/met...014415078.html

https://www.si.com/mlb/mets/news/met...-club-michael9

https://www.si.com/fannation/mlb/fas...-new-york-mets

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Congratulations! You've finally shown yourself capable of addressing the the points of contention (even if you did use a "few" more than 100 words). A bit late now after your previous gratuitous jibes:





I guess for whatever reason you decided to make me your enemy first. Okay. So be it.



My "musings" (as you put it) consisted of asking Mets fans whether there was evidence. Asking is considered to be reasonable in most circles.



Not by any means a secret. The signing was clearly an ego trip on the part of an owner to whom money is no object.

But it's bad for the team on a longer term basis (after several months of a season anyway). The contract becomes a cancer in the locker room. How is a manager going to discipline a player with that type of contract when he's not producing or even dogging it? He can't be pencilled out of the lineup because the club has too great of an investment in the player. Just by yelling at him or kicking his butt then? That doesn't much work on today's superstars. And then the other players start wondering why the pampered superstar is earning 25X the money when he's not 25x better. Like I say, that type of contract is a cancer in the locker room.

It's also bad for fans. How/why? Because the Juan Soto signing is going to fuel further player salary inflation which will in turn result in ticket and concession price inflation.

I know, I know, some of you will object by saying that will only be so if other owners follow suit. But they'll have to follow suit. The last time the owners decided not to bid up salaries by chasing free agents, the courts in their "wisdom" ruled collusion thus dictating that owners must bid ever higher for star players or risk jail as well as fines. And that's not been good for the fans or MLB in general.

So you are anti-free-agency?