Unpopular opinion on VCP an other "comp apps"

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Guy finds a Mantle at a yardsale for .50. Can't stomach taking advantage of the lady and offers her $1000. She thinks, oh my if he's willing to pay $1000 maybe he's willing to pay $10,000 and instead decides to keep it.

This is 100% what would happen to me if I found a .50 Mantle at a yardsale.

[dbussell12]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Guy finds a Mantle at a yardsale for .50. Can't stomach taking advantage of the lady and offers her $1000. She thinks, oh my if he's willing to pay $1000 maybe he's willing to pay $10,000 and instead decides to keep it.

This is 100% what would happen to me if I found a .50 Mantle at a yardsale.

LOL -- ethics gone wrong... or right?

[JollyElm]

Were I to ever run across a cheap, magical find at a garage sale, dealer's booth, etc., I would buy it at the low price, and then (after knowing their address or a way to contact them) send them a 'more proper' amount of money.
Sadly, though, incredible crap like that never happens to me!!

[RCMcKenzie]

If you offer a 52 Topps Mantle for 50 cents and I accept. ...that's where the story ends. I'm the hero and you are the villain. I'm the good guy and you are the bad guy, not the other way around. Are you serious with all this philosophy stuff? It's baseball cards. What do you want for your Bo Diaz Rook?

[dbussell12]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

If you offer a 52 Topps Mantle for 50 cents and I accept. ...that's where the story ends. I'm the hero and you are the villain. I'm the good guy and you are the bad guy, not the other way around. Are you serious with all this philosophy stuff? It's baseball cards. What do you want for your Bo Diaz Rook?

you're allowed to do whatever you want! if you read my posts you'll see what i'm saying. what you said in your comment isn't what i'm saying at all -- i'm just giving you the logic that either makes markets function or fail. its simple!

[dbussell12]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

If you offer a 52 Topps Mantle for 50 cents and I accept. ...that's where the story ends. I'm the hero and you are the villain. I'm the good guy and you are the bad guy, not the other way around. Are you serious with all this philosophy stuff? It's baseball cards. What do you want for your Bo Diaz Rook?

you're allowed to do whatever you want! if you read my posts you'll see what i'm saying. what you said in your comment isn't what i'm saying at all -- i'm just giving you the logic that either makes markets function or fail on a mass scale. its simple! none of it takes away your free will. collective value is an imagination and we either decide to exploit it for personal gain when we perceive windows or openings to take advantage of other people or participate in it respectfully of others, regardless of whether or not they understand it.

now imagine that old woman is your neighbor and she finds out you took her for all she was worth, knowing full well what you were doing. there's the community impact of your decisions in real time!

and accordingly, that creates, fosters -- or erodes and destroys -- social trust. it has nothing to do with heroes and villains. it has to do with whether we wake up tomorrow and our market still exists!

[molenick]

I think there is a spectrum and everyone draws the line at a different place.

There is the "old lady" example where you are taking advantage of someone else's ignorance who has no reason to know better. I wouldn't tell someone what to do in this case, but I think some of us would tell the old lady what the card was worth and that she should auction it off somewhere (or offer her fair market value). But only up to a point. For a '52 Mantle maybe. For a '52 Forrest Main, we would probably just buy the card. Anyway, if this actually happened, the card would probably be a a reprint!

Then there is the example of going to a card or mall show, sifting through a group of 1957 commons, and pulling out an Ashburn because either the seller didn't know he was a HOFer or didn't want to search through a pile of cards looking for the better players. I think most of us would just buy the card at the price offered because the seller "should have" known better.

There is also the case of something being offered at auction as a generic cabinet or postcard and you, as the bidder, knowing or suspecting that a better player was pictured...say Joe McGinnity on a factory team. I think most of us would just bid on the item and not tell the AH to update their listing. Because they and the consignor should have done some research, and because we like the idea that our knowledge/research is going to be put to practical use.

I haven't experienced these, so I can't say what I would do. But I do have a flexible approach to getting too much change. If I am at a farmer's market that I go to regularly, and someone gives me an extra $5 in change and I notice it, I will tell them. But if I am at a McDonald's or Dunkin' Donuts, I tend to keep it. My justification is that I am dealing with a big company and I like the idea that I am benefiting because I can do simple math in my head. But whatever the justification, I am stealing their money. Not that anyone still uses cash.

Similarly, if I am at a supermarket and I notice that something rang up at a higher price, I will tell them (sometimes to the annoyance of the people behind me on line). But if I notice that something rang up at a lower price...not so much.

[dbussell12]

Originally Posted by molenick

I think there is a spectrum and everyone draws the line at a different place.

There is the "old lady" example where you are taking advantage of someone else's ignorance who has no reason to know better. I wouldn't tell someone what to do in this case, but I think some of us would tell the old lady what the card was worth and that she should auction it off somewhere (or offer her fair market value). But only up to a point. For a '52 Mantle maybe. For a '52 Forrest Main, we would probably just buy the card. Anyway, if this actually happened, the card would probably be a a reprint!

Then there is the example of going to a card or mall show, sifting through a group of 1957 commons, and pulling out an Ashburn because either the seller didn't know he was a HOFer or didn't want to search through a pile of cards looking for the better players. I think most of us would just buy the card at the price offered because the seller "should have" known better.

There is also the case of something being offered at auction as a generic cabinet or postcard and you, as the bidder, knowing or suspecting that a better player was pictured...say Joe McGinnity on a factory team. I think most of us would just bid on the item and not tell the AH to update their listing. Because they and the consignor should have done some research, and because we like the idea that our knowledge/research is going to be put to practical use.

I haven't experienced these, so I can't say what I would do. But I do have a flexible approach to getting too much change. If I am at a farmer's market that I go to regularly, and someone gives me an extra $5 in change and I notice it, I will tell them. But if I am at a McDonald's or Dunkin' Donuts, I tend to keep it. My justification is that I am dealing with a big company and I like the idea that I am benefiting because I can do simple math in my head. But whatever the justification, I am stealing their money. Not that anyone still uses cash.

Similarly, if I am at a supermarket and I notice that something rang up at a higher price, I will tell them (sometimes to the annoyance of the people behind me on line). But if I notice that something rang up at a lower price...not so much.

great input here michael. absolutely a spectrum. the old lady mantle example is great because its clearly taking advantage of a massive discrepancy in market value and relative perceived value. its taking advantage of another individual who doesn't know any better for personal benefit. and thats what collapses markets. it helps elucidate the concept quite clearly. as you so astutely stated, corporate 'theft' on behalf of the buyer is so often already corporate theft on behalf of the corporation --- that's a broken exchange from the start!

so much of this, as we're talking about with corporations, already goes on and is well documented and goes un-prosecuted. so people think ethically that its fine, then are surprised (or at least feign surprise) when markets destabilize and collapse -- regionally, nationally, or globally. there are real factors at play in market collapse -- and these include many of which were discussed in the bid shilling post. history consistently tells the tale; as we can see, erosion of trust dictates what happens in stock market stability (or lack thereof) or bank runs. markets run on it; when its gone, so are markets. cue descent into primordial chaos. rapid inflation or deflation of collective value systems by bad actors is the end of the stories we tell ourselves about what is valuable and why. and when those stories go out the window (our implicit and explicit agreements as markets of truth, so to speak), so does a large part of what creates the foundation of our relationships and conduct in the polis. ie -- social contract(s).

as i was saying in the above comments, ethics isnt some abstract thing. it has real consequences when you have enough market literacy to clearly and unequivocally understand and state that they run on trust. silk road, early native american trading posts, debt in the roman empire (and american empire)... human history is rampant with examples of the precarity of trust and destabilization of markets.

well reasoned and level headed input in your comment. nice.