Early rack packs

[tulsaboy]

Those Christmas racks are a total scam. Still being made, every day, and selling on ebay and at local shows to unsuspecting schmucks. They are worthless as unopened items.
kevin

[deweyinthehall]

Has the source of the Christmas raks ever been determined? I know none were issued by Topps - but I recall that their origins may stretch back decades - haven't some big (if well handled) pulls come out of them? Could they have been both 1) a 'legitimate' 3rd party repackage way back in the day (60s-70s) AND 2) a current scam?

[tulsaboy]

People keep trying to "will" the Christmas racks into legitimacy, with all sorts of fanciful claims about particular staples, wear on the rack edges, which cardboard is the "right" cardboard, etc. The reality is that there are absolutely zero contemporary sources that prove that the Christmas racks were packaged close in time to the production of the cards. They appeared out of nowhere with Mark Murphy several years ago, and then have proliferated. The fact that you can now find Christmas racks with Topps, Fleer, Donruss, and even traded cards as late as 1986 is a pretty good indicator that these are still being made today in somebody's basement. Some folks have tried to say that they "clearly remember seeing these decades ago," but nobody can show off any contemporaneous photos, documents, etc. that back up the claim. If they really were legitimate, and if they really were as common as the sheer modern volume of them makes it seem, someone would have been able to show off a Christmas morning photo from 1965 with a handful of them by now. If you're active on the Vintage Wax and Packs Facebook page, where a number of significant unopened collectors hang out, you would be able to follow the conversations that have been ongoing about these racks. The community consensus is that they are fraudulent, and are worth whatever the value might be of the cards that you can see. Thus far, anytime they are opened on camera, there are no "hits" inside the racks. The best cards are always on the fronts and backs, making pretty clear that they are concocted with the intent to defraud.
kevin

[GasHouseGang]

I'm with you Kevin. I didn't mean to imply these Christmas racks are legitimate. In fact, I don't think they are. I was just saying these may be the only "rack packs" we ever see from some of these years because either they are very rare, or never produced.

[tulsaboy]

David,
I get that. I think what makes me sad is that people like you and I who would love to see legitimate 1960's racks know better; the people who buy these generally don't know better, but get sold on the idea that these are a real "find" or "treasure." It's just frustrating when scam artists take advantage of unsuspecting buyers. I think it's what can quickly turn someone off of the hobby.
kevin

[stlcardsfan]

There was an Ebay seller about maybe 10 years ago that had and sold some Xmas rack packs at incredible prices. All different years with plentiful HOFers / stars in view. In his "About Me" section he had a picture of a '52 rack pack with an Eddie Mathews on the back and the story of how he acquired all the packs. Wish I could remember the details.

[jchcollins]

I will agree without going into too much detail that the Christmas Racks are a scam. Perhaps there were a few legit to concept back decades ago, but the mass exploitation and fakery since then has long since destroyed any value behind the idea. It's nice to think about, I'll give you. But just a total scam in the 21st century. Some of the more recent ones it's obvious that Santa Claus was printed on a modern color laser printer, and the plastic and methods used to "seal" the packs certainly was not produced with the technology that existed before 1970.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by tulsaboy

People keep trying to "will" the Christmas racks into legitimacy, with all sorts of fanciful claims about particular staples, wear on the rack edges, which cardboard is the "right" cardboard, etc.

Their argument is that mine are the "real" fakes because they're from the same source as Mark Murphy's "originals"....

[tulsaboy]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Their argument is that mine are the "real" fakes because they're from the same source as Mark Murphy's "originals"....

Yeah, which is why it's funny to watch the progression on ebay of what years are now being made into these racks. Today I saw one filled with 1988 Topps cards, all Royals on the front. I mean, at the point that someone thinks that making fake racks out of 1988 Topps is a money-making idea, we have truly jumped the proverbial shark on these. Oh well.

kevin