Unpopular opinion on VCP an other "comp apps"

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Comps are stupid and unrealistic. These are collectibles and there is dedicated material cost or exact number. What someone bought and sold a card for yesterday is irrelevant to what I may buy and sell my card for.

So were price guides also stupid and unrealistic when they used to aggregate the comp data for us back in the 1990’s and earlier?

Clearly no buyer or seller can be forced into paying a specific price, and at times other factors / reasoning surely comes into play - but if you don’t use market data to evaluate recent prices, then I’m imagining those who might find your pricing decisions out of line whether buying or selling stands to be a higher number.

VCP is certainly useful; to the OP’s notion that it has no utility at all one would have to generally agree that the prices being paid elsewhere not tracked on VCP (whether that’s Facebook, WhatNot, a discord, the local card shop / show / flea market, garage sale…) are vastly out of line with those reported in VCP. I am only one person with a small postwar vintage collection - but at least in my experience - that’s neither true or close to being true. Some dealers will balk at the fact that a VCP average price represents a longer duration of time than just the last 3 comps that they want to use on their items because they were higher and it’s trending upward.


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[campyfan39]

Great discussion, and I am learning from the posts. I retract my use of the word "worthless." That was too strong of a word and I don't truly believe that to be the case, mainly based on some of the posts on this thread.

My original point was intended to be that people treat it like the be-all end-all, when it can't track most sales. I have had sellers send me screenshots that included prices from 3-4 years ago, or even pandemic pricing.

I do agree that the other sales are likely influenced by VCP, or more so, eBay sales, which people who have never heard of VCP use. That is a great point, and much like the price guides of the early days. Some dealers still use Beckett. Many old-timers at the shows I frequent have Beckett prices listed on their cards, and then they will deal from there.

I love to research; it's fun. If I have cards I want to buy, I will watch and track them on every possible platform for months. I keep meticulous records of the sales, even asking people what they bought things for and what they sold things for. I have great relationships with dozens of dealers and collectors, so I can do that.

I am not so presumptuous as to say that everyone should cancel their subscriptions or anything. I said in the OP that I was willing to be wrong and learn. However, I still believe the vast majority of sales are not and will not ever be reported to them. Thus, a card is still only as valuable as the seller thinks it is and as the buyer's desire to have it.

Originally Posted by jchcollins

So were price guides also stupid and unrealistic when they used to aggregate the comp data for us back in the 1990’s and earlier?

Clearly no buyer or seller can be forced into paying a specific price, and at times other factors / reasoning surely comes into play - but if you don’t use market data to evaluate recent prices, then I’m imagining those who might find your pricing decisions out of line whether buying or selling stands to be a higher number.

VCP is certainly useful; to the OP’s notion that it has no utility at all one would have to generally agree that the prices being paid elsewhere not tracked on VCP (whether that’s Facebook, WhatNot, a discord, the local card shop / show / flea market, garage sale…) are vastly out of line with those reported in VCP. I am only one person with a small postwar vintage collection - but at least in my experience - that’s neither true or close to being true. Some dealers will balk at the fact that a VCP average price represents a longer duration of time than just the last 3 comps that they want to use on their items because they were higher and it’s trending upward.


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[dbussell12]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Great discussion, and I am learning from the posts. I retract my use of the word "worthless." That was too strong of a word and I don't truly believe that to be the case, mainly based on some of the posts on this thread.

My original point was intended to be that people treat it like the be-all end-all, when it can't track most sales. I have had sellers send me screenshots that included prices from 3-4 years ago, or even pandemic pricing.

I do agree that the other sales are likely influenced by VCP, or more so, eBay sales, which people who have never heard of VCP use. That is a great point, and much like the price guides of the early days. Some dealers still use Beckett. Many old-timers at the shows I frequent have Beckett prices listed on their cards, and then they will deal from there.

I love to research; it's fun. If I have cards I want to buy, I will watch and track them on every possible platform for months. I keep meticulous records of the sales, even asking people what they bought things for and what they sold things for. I have great relationships with dozens of dealers and collectors, so I can do that.

I am not so presumptuous as to say that everyone should cancel their subscriptions or anything. I said in the OP that I was willing to be wrong and learn. However, I still believe the vast majority of sales are not and will not ever be reported to them. Thus, a card is still only as valuable as the seller thinks it is and as the buyer's desire to have it.

great observation chris. incomplete data is what keeps us data analysts (ie myself) banging our heads against the collective wall.

you are 100% correct. incomplete information regarding sales and the failure to capture all data, all information, incomplete data sets, etc to me fundamentally characterizes the human condition. we have to do the best with what we have; hopefully develop relationships and mutual contextual understanding to build trust with one another and open ourselves up to and respect when people are able to see things that we can't or don't see ourselves.

this is the big issue with markets in my opinion. they operate best in mutual good faith. if the seller wants me to succeed and i want the seller to succeed, we are in prime position to mutually benefit from the transaction. but because of things like obscured market information or data, as well as people who wish to exploit others for their perceived own personal gain, we have a lot of difficulty discerning truth or creating environments of mutual benefit.

if sales are not reported or captured and introduced into data sets, we are working with the best we have. and as we so often see in humanity throughout history, the best we have is often a fair distance from the objective reality or the truth...