New lawsuit accuses PWCC of massive shill bidding

[raulus]

As a business owner, the whole situation fascinates and flummoxes me.

It sure seems like PWCC had a perfectly solid business that was basically printing money through normal operations by operating their boring little monthly eBay auctions. Seems like only a fool would mess with that. I guess you could argue that it was too boring and pedestrian as far as business models go, without a whole lot of flash and pizzazz.

And yet the only way that these allegations make any sense is if PWCC decided that they needed even more, and the only way to get there was by engaging in shenanigans and monkeyshines, because they thought they could get away with it?

I suppose to some extent they did get away with it, in terms of not going to jail or facing any serious consequences, aside from the business basically collapsing, and who knows how much (or little) in value accruing to the original ownership in the sale to Fanatics. I think we've had some debates around here about that point, but none of us seems to really know whether the original ownership actually got any cash in the sale. If they got nothing, then that has to hurt. If the payout was 8 or 9 figures (seems unlikely to me), then I guess it worked out well for them in the end.

But for my money, particularly with the benefit of hindsight, it sure seems like a terrible idea to take a perfectly solid business and basically bet the farm by chasing a little more. But maybe as an accountant, I'm just way too conservative in my approach to managing my business to swing out of my shoes at every pitch that comes my way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

As a business owner, the whole situation fascinates and flummoxes me.

It sure seems like PWCC had a perfectly solid business that was basically printing money through normal operations by operating their boring little monthly eBay auctions. Seems like only a fool would mess with that. I guess you could argue that it was too boring and pedestrian as far as business models go, without a whole lot of flash and pizzazz.

And yet the only way that these allegations make any sense is if PWCC decided that they needed even more, and the only way to get there was by engaging in shenanigans and monkeyshines, because they thought they could get away with it?

I suppose to some extent they did get away with it, in terms of not going to jail or facing any serious consequences, aside from the business basically collapsing, and who knows how much (or little) in value accruing to the original ownership in the sale to Fanatics. I think we've had some debates around here about that point, but none of us seems to really know whether the original ownership actually got any cash in the sale. If they got nothing, then that has to hurt. If the payout was 8 or 9 figures (seems unlikely to me), then I guess it worked out well for them in the end.

But for my money, particularly with the benefit of hindsight, it sure seems like a terrible idea to take a perfectly solid business and basically bet the farm by chasing a little more. But maybe as an accountant, I'm just way too conservative in my approach to managing my business to swing out of my shoes at every pitch that comes my way.

Never underestimate greed and hubris. There are countless criminals who probably could have made a nice living with a legitimate version of their business.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Never underestimate greed and hubris.

And I guess a willingness to cross a lot of red lines. If the allegations are true, then there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of a moral compass in play.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

And I guess a willingness to cross a lot of red lines. If the allegations are true, then there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of a moral compass in play.

BTW Brent was hooked in with notorious card doctors amost from day one. Not like he had a completely legit business then went south.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

BTW Brent was hooked in with notorious card doctors amost from day one. Not like he had a completely legit business then went south.

Fair enough.

And maybe that's how the business really survived, with the auction platform being more of a side show, with the real action in the shadows.

Not sure if that's 100% true, simply because it seemed like they were running huge volumes of cards through their eBay auction service by 2017 and beyond. But maybe the initial success from all the doctoring helped to jumpstart the auction service?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Fair enough.

And maybe that's how the business really survived, with the auction platform being more of a side show, with the real action in the shadows.

Not sure if that's 100% true, simply because it seemed like they were running huge volumes of cards through their eBay auction service by 2017 and beyond. But maybe the initial success from all the doctoring helped to jumpstart the auction service?

I think there was certainly a point where the brand was strong enough that it would have done fine had Brent gone straight. And much of that growth was, to be fair, due to his creativity and hard work and vision.

[BobbyVCP]

He did a few bad things but also did a lot of good as well...

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think there was certainly a point where the brand was strong enough that it would have done fine had Brent gone straight. And much of that growth was, to be fair, due to his creativity and hard work and vision.

The assets were decent, the brand was a POS. Fanatics tried to wash the dog crap stench off the PWCC sneaker but ended up having to throw it away and rename because the filth had been ground too far into the treads.

I don't know "Alt" from "Shift" or "Command" but it sounds like Alt is a bunch of speculators who got caught with their pants down when ultramodern tanked and are looking for someone to blame for it.

Oh, and Baltic Fox, you're not even subject to our legal system; stop being a troll. Happily adding you to my "ignore" list.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by raulus

And I guess a willingness to cross a lot of red lines. If the allegations are true, then there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of a moral compass in play.

Allow me to introduce you to American capitalism. You must be new here.