T207 Napoleon back confirmation thread.

[frohme]

If you scrounge Net54 via your favorite search tool, you'll see a few conversations about the T207 Napoleon back over the years - as far back as 2002. In at least one of those threads from 2007 (http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87329) a survey of the known T207 Napoleon backs had a brief run (3 months, 14 posts). It topped out in October, 2007 at 89 known cards.

With that survey as a starting point, we should be able to make a significant dent in confirming as many of the remaining 66 cards as possible. After all, it has been almost 10 years - enough time for 9 more Red Cross backs to show up! The list below was copied verbatim from the last post from the 2007 thread. It will be update as confirmations come in. Most T207 collectors believe we'll get to at least the basic set of 150, if not all 155, with variations.

If you have scans of, or previous auction/eBay/etc... listing of any of those cards with the Napoleon back, would love to hear of it - time to complete (confirm) this subset checklist. This would also be a great time to show off your Napoleon backs if you have them! That said ... let's go!

T207 Napoleon backs - working confirmation list of 155 Recruit-class card with their confirmation date. Each of the 89 cards from the previous list was given the date 10/16/2007. Unconfirmed list has become small enough to separate it and report only those unconfirmed - as before, pop-report-only confirmations are marked with an asterisk (*). Additionally, confirmations that do not include a photo of the front/back (outside the original 89 cards) are marked with a '+' and left as 'unconfirmed' until a visual a visual is found/provided.

As of April, 2025, the list stands with ~8 Napoleon backs still unconfirmed in this thread (but see post 35 re Erwin):

*Erwin
Mitchell, W
Northen

Variations
Austin (w/insignia)
Fisher (blue)
Livingston 'C'
Livingston 'c'
Mullin 'D'

As of 4/2025 - Confirmed: 147

I will continue to keep this thread updated as new information becomes available, but may be a little slow to do so.

As always, post confirmations here, via PM to me, or email me at mikefrohme@yahoo.com. Thank you all for all the contributions over the 8+ years of this thread's activity!

--
Mike

[swarmee]

Chance
Becker
Danforth
Bodie
Bescher
F Smith
Tannehill
Wood
Henriksen
Marquard

[swarmee]

PSA's pop report does not show the back breakdown, but SGC flips do. I will check some PSA registry sets to see if I can find some images.

[ChiSoxFan]

More confirmed cards ...

Did a quick google search and found this web site ... T207 Napoleon Backs

These are confirmed on this site:

Ainsmith
Becker
Bender
Bescher
Bodie
Callahan
Cole
Covington
Danforth
Devlin
Doyle
Evans
Hamilton
Henriksen
Hogan
Kling
Krause
Lord, B
Lord, H
McDonald
McIntire
McIntyre
Mitchell, M
Needham
Nunamaker
Oakes
Olson
Smith, F
Thomas
Vaughn
Warhop


Thanks,
James

[swarmee]

Nothing doing on the image search at PSA.

SGC pop report:
Ainsmith SGC 30
Ball SGC 50
Barger SGC 70
Becker SGC A, SGC 30
Bescher SGC 30
Bodie SGC 30, SGC 40
Callahan SGC 35, SGC 50
Chance SGC 45
Covington SGC 55
Danforth SGC 60
Davis SGC 40
Devlin SGC 30
Evans 2x SGC 40
Henriksen SGC 10
Hogan SGC 40
Kling SGC 40
Lord, H SGC 35, SGC 50
McIntyre SGC 40
Needham SGC 45
Oakes SGC 60
Oldring SGC 82 (wow)
Olson SGC 10, SGC 30, SGC 40
Smith, F SGC 10, SGC 60
Steinfeldt "Table for four!" - not in SGC, just had to make the joke
Tannehill 2x SGC AUTH
Thomas SGC 50
Vaughn 2x SGC 60
Wood 2x SGC 20

[frohme]

Appreciate everyone's inputs - will get the list updated tonight.

Keep 'em coming!

--
Mike

[kmac32]

I have Chance and Lennox with Napoleon backs

[frohme]

Thanks for the inputs, everyone.

Unconfirmed list is down to 26 now.

I marked the ones that are only TPG reported with an asterisk.

--
Mike

[Bridwell]

Mike, great topic!

I have Devore with Napoleon so that one is confirmed. Also I had Steinfeldt but traded it to you in Sept 2014 so that one is confirmed too.

[tbob]

I have a PSA 4 Wilie with Napoleon back so you can confirm that one. I'll check my raw set but I am pretty sure I have the Perdue and O'Toole with Nap backs.

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Bridwell

Mike, great topic!

I have Devore with Napoleon so that one is confirmed. Also I had Steinfeldt but traded it to you in Sept 2014 so that one is confirmed too.

Thanks for the Devore confirmation, Ron. I checked my list last night, thinking I had Steinfeldt, and for whatever reason, did not see it. Checked this morning, and le voila.

Two more down!

--
Mike

[frohme]

Found a reference in a previous Net54 thread to another one:

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....199#post844957 has reference to Golden.

--
Mike

[frohme]

Originally Posted by tbob

I have a PSA 4 Wilie with Napoleon back so you can confirm that one. I'll check my raw set but I am pretty sure I have the Perdue and O'Toole with Nap backs.

Thanks, Bob.

Seems my previously reply to your post got axed somewhere as I responded at the same I replied to Ron. Appreciate the inputs, and the checking on your raw set! Also think you also mentioned some time back on Net54 that you had picked up Wilson (http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...95&postcount=4) is that the case?

Thanks!
--
Mike

[tbob]

Originally Posted by frohme

Thanks, Bob.

Seems my previously reply to your post got axed somewhere as I responded at the same I replied to Ron. Appreciate the inputs, and the checking on your raw set! Also think you also mentioned some time back on Net54 that you had picked up Wilson (http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...95&postcount=4) is that the case?

Thanks!
--
Mike

Mike- yes I forgot about Wilson. You can confirm that one too.

[spec]

I can confirm Napoleon backs for O'Toole, Perdue, Stovall and Wagner.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Not much help but I can double confirm the Ray Fisher - White Cap with Napoleon back, out of my dozen it is the only non-Recruit.

[frohme]

Updated the list with the newest inputs, thanks, tbob, spec, and Hot Springs.

Unconfirmed list now stands at 17, including many of the variations

Keep 'em coming!

[frohme]

Updated list to remove McLean, as previously reported in the pick-up thread.

Unconfirmed list now stands at 16.

[sulldux]

SGC 45 Hageman here

[frohme]

Breaking with stated approach, Reulbach confirmed (from SGC pop report).

Unconfirmed list stands at 15 now

[frohme]

Cleaned up this confirmation list to show only the - as yet - unconfirmed poses, and those that have only a TPG confirmation.

Unconfirmed list now stands at 15, or only 11 without the variations. Looking at the list, I think its clear the others are there (at least the basic 150)... i.e. the result pretty much everyone expects at this point.

Of the remainders, all but 2 are in the easiest class of Recruits to find, and there's little reason to expect anything out of line with either Sullivan or Northen. A couple possible oddities stand out at the moment :

1. Of the 11 remaining unconfirmed (regardless of variation), the only 3 from the Nat'l league are all from Brooklyn (Coulson, Erwin, Northen). The Amer stragglers represent 6 different teams. Seems mostly coincidence at this point
2. Of the 15 remaining unconfirmed (including variations), none of the 4 players (Austin, Fisher, Livingston, Mullin) has more than one of the variations accounted for:
   • Austin (neither)
   • Fisher (white cap only)
   • Livingston ('A' only)
   • Mullin (no 'D') only

If this behavior holds, it has suggestions as to when Napoleons were printed/released in the overall schema of things as Livingston went from Phila to Cleveland in late 1911, yet no Livingston (Cle) card is yet known with the Napoleon back. Much too early to say, but...

[frohme]

Coulson has been removed fom the unconfirmed T207 Napoleon list, which now stands at 14.

Many thanks, Luke!

[canjond]

I thought this may be a good place to post this... Through the help of Leon and a few others, I was able to track down the elusive Napoleon cigar pack floating around the National and photograph it. To my knowledge, this is the first time a Napoleon pack has ever been seen. This is undoubtedly correct, as the tax stamp still yields a wonderful "Factory 240, 1st D. PA" overprint on the reverse.

The story of how this pack was discovered is equally amazing. In 2012, a crew was doing renovations on a church in Boston and found this tucked between the walls. Unfortunately it's missing one side, as well as the inner slide, but hey - it's the best we've got. Sandwiched between the top and bottom was a Napoleon backed card. Here is the pack and card that was tucked inside:

[Luke]

Wow! Is the pack for sale?

[canjond]

Unfortunately no.

[Leftyndv10]

I can confirm the Gabby Street Napoleon exists

[garymc]

This is what I have......

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Leftyndv10

I can confirm the Gabby Street Napoleon exists

Yes - one sold a couple of days ago on eBay. The only 11 left unconfirmed are those in the first post of this thread.

[Vintagecatcher]

Hi Mike,

Great thread!

Have owned 3 Napoleon back T207s.

Traded away a George Graham in a trade for an orange border T210 Yantz.

Still have a Gabby Street and a Livingston "A."

Patrick

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frohme

If you scrounge Net54 via your favorite search tool, you'll see a few conversations about the T207 Napoleon back over the years - as far back as 2002. In at least one of those threads from 2007 (http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87329) a survey of the known T207 Napoleon backs had a brief run (3 months, 14 posts). It topped out in October, 2007 at 89 known cards.

With that survey as a starting point, we should be able to make a significant dent in confirming as many of the remaining 66 cards as possible. After all, it has been almost 10 years - enough time for 9 more Red Cross backs to show up! The list below was copied verbatim from the last post from the 2007 thread. It will be update as confirmations come in. Most T207 collecters believe we'll get to at least the basic set of 150, if not all 155, with variations.

If you have scans of, or previous auction/eBay/etc... listing of any of those cards with the Napoleon back, would love to hear of it - time to complete (confirm) this subset checklist. This would also be a great time to show off your Napoleon backs if you have them! That said ... let's go!

Disclaimer: I have not looked at pop reports, preferring direct information at this point. (nor have I pulled info from more recent Net54 threads, like the pickup threads, etc...)

T207 Napoleon backs - working confirmation list of 155 Recruit-class card with their confirmation date. Each of the 89 cards from the previous list was given the date 10/16/2007. Unconfirmed list is small enough to separate it.

T207 Napoleon backs - Unconfirmed: 11

Bradley
Erwin
Graney
Mitchell, W
Northen
Sullivan

Variations
Austin (w)
Fisher (blue)
Livingston 'C'
Livingston 'c'
Mullin 'D'

As of 3/20/2020 - Confirmed: 144

TPG only confirmations

Ball 5/6/2016*


Post confirmations here, via PM to em, or email me at mikefrohme@yahoo.com. Thanks!

--
Mike

Good luck confirming them. The best way to do that is get the word out and be persistent.
.

[frohme]

Well, it has been four years since the last update to this thread - the removal of Bradley and non-TPG-only confirmation of Neal Ball in June/July 2022. Thought it would be a good time to revisit status and add comments/observations.

Confirmation still stands at 145 cards, out of the possible 155 cards usually seen with any Recruit-class back.

I separate the missing 10 into two groups:

The first group of five are those I fully expect to be found ... eventually:

• Erwin - Brooklyn
• Graney - Cleveland
• Willie Mitchell - Cleveland
• Northen - Brooklyn
• Sullivan - Chicago AL

The second group of five are all on the variation cards:

• Austin (StL) S Louis AL
• Fisher (Blue cap) - New York AL
• Mullin (D) - Detroit
• Livingston (small c) - Cleveland
• Livingston (big C) - Cleveland

To me, finding any of the unconfirmed variations would imply that they should all be found. As it stands, the lack of confirmation of the 'corrected' variations (as some would argue), has possible implications as to when the Napoleon cards might have been released with respect to the larger T207 release cycle(s).

There are generally perceived difficulties in finding players on certain teams with the Napoleon back. It seems Brooklyn, Boston (both leagues), and Chicago (both leagues) are notoriously difficult, though it varies a bit from player to player.

Having gathered 126 of the 145 confirmed cards in the Napoleon starting in about 2010, I don't expect to be able to complete the subset given the current state of things. They just don't show up and when they do, competition can be crazy. In addition, ~2/3 of the remaining ones for me are on the teams listed above, for each of which there are team collectors looking to complete their own runs.

Not unsurprisingly, I suspect, these team-related difficulties mostly mirror patterns seen with the anonymous factory 3 Recruit subset of 49 50 cards, where Boston (AL) - 12, Chicago (AL) - 8, Brooklyn - 6, Boston (NL) - 5 and StL (AL) - 5 account for 36 of the 49 50 known cards... with the Cubs being an outlier as they have no known Recruit cards with the Anon Factory 3 back.

So check your T207 backs and if you have any of the ones listed above, a note for confirmation to move this thread and our collective knowledge forward would be most appreciated.

-
Mike

[Leon]

Thanks for your research for the hobby, Mike.

(for those that don't know, Mike and I played little league together...small world)

Originally Posted by frohme

Well, it has been four years since the last update to this thread - the removal of Bradley and non-TPG-only confirmation of Neal Ball in June/July 2022. Thought it would be a good time to revisit status and add comments/observations.

Confirmation still stands at 145 cards, out of the possible 155 cards usually seen with any Recruit-class back.

I separate the missing 10 into two groups:

The first group of five are those I fully expect to be found ... eventually:

• Erwin - Brooklyn
• Graney - Cleveland
• Willie Mitchell - Cleveland
• Northen - Brooklyn
• Sullivan - Chicago AL

The second group of five are all on the variation cards:

• Austin (StL) S Louis AL
• Fisher (Blue cap) - New York AL
• Mullin (D) - Detroit
• Livingston (small c) - Cleveland
• Livingston (big C) - Cleveland

To me, finding any of the unconfirmed variations would imply that they should all be found. As it stands, the lack of confirmation of the 'corrected' variations (as some would argue), has possible implications as to when the Napoleon cards might have been released with respect to the larger T207 release cycle(s).

There are generally perceived difficulties in finding players on certain teams with the Napoleon back. It seems Brooklyn, Boston (both leagues), and Chicago (both leagues) are notoriously difficult, though it varies a bit from player to player.

Having gathered 126 of the 145 confirmed cards in the Napoleon starting in about 2010, I don't expect to be able to complete the subset given the current state of things. They just don't show up and when they do, competition can be crazy. In addition, ~2/3 of the remaining ones for me are on the teams listed above, for each of which there are team collectors looking to complete their own runs.

Not unsurprisingly, I suspect, these team-related difficulties mostly mirror patterns seen with the anonymous factory 3 Recruit subset of 49 cards, where Boston (AL) - 12, Chicago (AL) - 8, Brooklyn - 6, Boston (NL) - 5 and StL (AL) - 5 account for 36 of the 49 known cards... with the Cubs being an outlier as they have no known Recruit cards with the Anon Factory 3 back.

So check your T207 backs and if you have any of the ones listed above, a note for confirmation to move this thread and our collective knowledge forward would be most appreciated.

-
Mike

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for your research for the hobby, Mike.

(for those that don't know, Mike and I played little league together...small world)

I can imagine you two in the dugout, Mike digging out a prewar type card from the back pocket of his uniform to swap Leon for a Broadleaf T207 on Mike's wantlist.

Brian

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for your research for the hobby, Mike.

(for those that don't know, Mike and I played little league together...small world)

Thanks, Leon - ahhhh to be back in those days, knowing what we know now...

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I can imagine you two in the dugout, Mike digging out a prewar type card from the back pocket of his uniform to swap Leon for a Broadleaf T207 on Mike's wantlist.

Brian

That was good for a laugh, Brian - well played.

[frohme]

Have an update based on a run-through of SGC's pop-report for T207 Napoleon ... which I've been through before, but not recently... I hesitate to use Pop Reports in general, and though SGC is the only one that covers the T207 backs (AFAIK), they're not always good at getting them right. That said, I'm including the results here for completeness (with questionable accuracy)... i.e. take from this what you will.

Of the 257 Napoleon's recorded as of today (14 Nov, 2024) ... 124 different poses are present. Ferry leads all comers with 7 copies, Collins and McGraw are close behind with 6 and Wiltse and Zeider are nipping at their heels with 5. The most telling numbers are that 47 poses only have 1 copy graded, with another 42 only having 2, for a combined 89 of the 124 poses.

There was one surprise, as there is a graded copy of Erwin - presently unconfirmed - reducing the number unconfirmed by 1. He is now marked with a * as was previously the custom. None of the 'corrected' variations was present in the report, nor any of the other 4 unconfirmed poses - Graney, Mitchell (Willie), Northen, Sullivan.

[frohme]

Adding confirmation of Jack Graney, with input from a board member - thanks for the photos, Tom!



Graney takes the unconfirmed T207 Napoleon list down to just 8 or 9, with 5 of those being the 'corrected' variations...with Willie Mitchell, Northen, Sullivan as the true holdouts at this point. As ever, any and all input warmly welcomed!

Thanks!
--
Mike

[frohme]

From REA Lot 576 last night ...

Not my card ...


So only Willie Mitchell and Northen are left as the non-variations, though visual confirmation of Erwin from the SGC pop report is still needed. No other changes - all 5 of the 'corrected' Recruit variations are still unconfirmed. Count is now 147/150 (or 155) confirmed.

--
Mike