"True" T206 rookies backs?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

There’s only really one “rookie” in the t206 set. Marquard (hands at side) with a 150 back (or other backs that coincide with that 1909 date). Some might argue Speaker’s rookie is the t206, but there are some 1909 issues that pre-date the Speaker, which doesn’t come in a 150 back. I believe Speaker only comes in the 350 or 350-460, issued in 1910 and 1911 respectively.

Just my opinion and doing this from the top of my head, so please forgive any errors I may have made.

Here's a question...since Zach Wheat was printed in the 350-460 Series group in 1911, what is his earliest card/card-like thing that has a (at least somewhat) confirmed printing date, and not just a range of years?

Brian

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here's a question...since Zach Wheat was printed in the 350-460 Series group in 1911, what is his earliest card/card-like thing that has a (at least somewhat) confirmed printing date, and not just a range of years?

Brian

Is it known if his T215 Red Cross is from 1910 or 1911?
Same question for his PX7 Domino Disk (1910-12)

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here's a question...since Zach Wheat was printed in the 350-460 Series group in 1911, what is his earliest card/card-like thing that has a (at least somewhat) confirmed printing date, and not just a range of years?

Brian

I knew I should have consulted my own website before responding about HOF "rookies" in the T206 set. FWIW, it isn't yet complete, but it's my mission to finally complete it by this year. For those so inclined to check it out:

https://imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofearliest

T206 HOF rookies, depending on one's definition, could include the following:

Home Run Baker - 1910 (Series of 350)
Eddie Collins - 1909 (Series of 150)
Rube Marquard - Hands at Thighs - 1909 (Series of 150)
Tris Speaker - Spring of 1910 (Series of 350)
Zach Wheat - 1910 (Series of 350)

My checklist of earliest known cards/photos of Wheat is the following:

1900s Kelso Studio Cabinet Card (with brothers)
c1905-06 Cabinet (Union City uniform) (2 variations)
1906 Prairie Roses Team Cabinet
1909-12 PX7 Sweet Caporal Domino Discs
1910 T206 (series of 350)
1910 T213 Coupon Cigarettes (Brown Caption)
1910-12 T215 Red Cross Tobacco (Brown Caption)
1910-12 Sweet Caporal Pins (Large Letters)
1910-12 Sweet Caporal Pins (Small Letters)
1910 Brooklyn Superbas Team Postcard (Spring Training Hot Springs)
c1910 RPPC

[brianp-beme]

Nice list of collectible Wheat items Derek. A few remarks...

The T206 Wheat card was part of what has been identified as the 460 Only Series print group, which includes cards with backs that have "350-460 Subjects", but no "350 Subjects" backs. The printing timeline for this group of 48 cards is supposedly 1911.

Being that this is the case, I have my doubts that the Wheat design was first utilized in the 1910 T213-1 Coupon or the 1910-12 T215 Red Cross (brown caption) sets. Logically thinking, the ATC commissioned the designs for its T206 issue, and then utilized these designs for other sets. The inclusion in the Red Cross (brown caption) set makes sense, because of the identified issue dates (1910-1912) allow for it to be a card that was printed possibly in either 1911 or 1912.

However the inclusion of Wheat in T213-1 Coupon set calls into question its strictly 1910 dating, since his card's design was first introduced in the "460 Only" T206 print group in 1911.

My thought is that the T213-1 Coupon set was either printed over a span of two years (1910 and 1911), or perhaps just 1911.

Maybe some research about the design composition of the T213-1 set (what print groups the designs come from) has been conducted in the past, but I still just might look into it to see if the T213-1 set was indeed a multi-year production)

EDIT: Just checked the T213-1 Coupon checklist, and Wheat is not included in this set. His T213-1 Coupon entry in the earliest HOF item list should be stricken, and perhaps threshed as well, so as to separate the Wheat from the chaff. There goes my fun research project, as I will assume that earlier hobbyist correctly pegged the T213-1 Coupon set as being issued in 1910.


Brian

[Kidnapped18]

Here's my list so any of these should work

Eddie Collins – 6
MLB Debut September 17, 1906
EPDG
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Tris Speaker – 4
MLB Debut September 14, 1907
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Home Run Baker – 6
MLB Debut September 21, 1908
EPDG
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Rube Marquard Hands at Thighs – 6
MLB Debut September 25, 1908
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 150
Sovereign 150
Sweet Caporal 150/25
Sweet Caporal 150/30
Sweet Caporal 150/649OP


Zach Wheat – 11
MLB Debut September 11, 1909
American Beauty 460
Cycle 460
EPDG
Hindu Red
Old Mill
Piedmont 350-460
Polar Bear
Sweet Caporal 350-460/30
Sweet Caporal 350-460/42
Sweet Caporal 350-460/42OP
Tolstoi

[Knightlax5]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Here's my list so any of these should work

Eddie Collins – 6
MLB Debut September 17, 1906
EPDG
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Tris Speaker – 4
MLB Debut September 14, 1907
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Home Run Baker – 6
MLB Debut September 21, 1908
EPDG
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 350
Sovereign 350
Sweet Caporal 350/25
Sweet Caporal 350/30


Rube Marquard Hands at Thighs – 6
MLB Debut September 25, 1908
Hindu Brown
Piedmont 150
Sovereign 150
Sweet Caporal 150/25
Sweet Caporal 150/30
Sweet Caporal 15/649OP


Zach Wheat – 11
MLB Debut September 11, 1909
American Beauty 460
Cycle 460
EPDG
Hindu Red
Old Mill
Piedmont 350-460
Polar Bear
Sweet Caporal 350-460/30
Sweet Caporal 350-460/42
Sweet Caporal 350-460/42OP
Tolstoi

Wow appreciate the insights from the responses! Does anyone know if there any backs which have all HOF'ers? I would assume a sweet cap or piedmont 350 would haver all of the HOF'ers?

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just did some checking, no Zach Wheat individual catalogued item can be definitively dated to earlier than 1911.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Frank Baker 1909 E91-B American Caramel