1969 topps white letters….is it worth the chase?

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by raineybt

All of that said - 1969 Topps #441b Dennis Higgins White Letters is one of the last 3 Senators cards I need to close out every VAR from '49 to '74. If anyone has one they are willing to sell, or would be willing to trade, let me know!

What are the other two?

[ALR-bishop]

And do you have a list of all the Senator variations you are seeking or have through those years ?

[Zach Wheat]

Absolutely I would go for the white letter variations.

[raineybt]

The other two are the 1956 Harmon Killebrew white back and the 1952 Frank Campos black star variation. I'm 50/50 on whether I consider the '52 Campos partial border as a true variation or a printing error, but may end up making my list.

I pull most of the variations off TCDB, where I actually found most of the broader subsets I referenced. Primary are the following:

Back Variations
'52 Topps Red / Black backs
'53 Topps White / Black bios
'56 Topps Gray / White backs
'59 Topps Dark / Light backs
'60 Topps Gray / White backs

Letter / Color Variations
'58 Topps White / Yellow team name
'62 Topps Green Tints
'69 Topps White Letters

While not variants, I'm also working my way through the O-Pee-Chee and Venezuelan sets as well.

Originally Posted by toppcat

What are the other two?

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks Brian. While I have I have the Campos black star, a partial black star and a partial missing front border, I would view them as scarce print defects. But the hobby has long classified the black star as a variation and it is included in most master checklists for the 52 set

[rich699]

PM

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Thanks Brian. While I have I have the Campos black star, a partial black star and a partial missing front border, I would view them as scarce print defects. But the hobby has long classified the black star as a variation and it is included in most master checklists for the 52 set

Agree that however the variations occurred, the hobby accepts them as legit variations for the master set collectors

[raineybt]

I find myself constantly torn from a hobby standpoint on what's a "true" variation and what's a print defect. The 1960 Faye Throneberry "Yankees variation" is to be my litmus test of sorts. These were clearly created due to proof sheets that were caught and fixed before the full print run was put to press and issued. This card therefore becomes an interesting proof card, but becomes part of the collection related to other ephemera of interest, not part of an official set (or more importantly for someone that collects for completeness, not something I'm missing to close out a set).

How I've decided to generally put a card on the side of VAR vs. printing defects is what the grading companies will classify. Its very ironic given that I'm by and large anti-grading (too subjective, wild conflicts of interest, cost, speed - I can go on), but I also recognize that's where the hobby has gone. The PGCs recognizing and slabbing a variant makes it to me "part of the set", where they generally put "Authentic" for samples, proofs, etc (or won't grade them at all).

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Thanks Brian. While I have I have the Campos black star, a partial black star and a partial missing front border, I would view them as scarce print defects. But the hobby has long classified the black star as a variation and it is included in most master checklists for the 52 set

[ALR-bishop]

The grading companies used to follow what the SCD Standard Catalog and or Becketts did in terms of variations but that obviously does not happen anymore.

Topps proofs tend to be blank bank, but the 60 Throneberry, as well as the Hadley and Cimoli have finished backs. Still I agree with you about not including it on master lists

From Bob Lemke's blog blog

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awri...HRoRUgHyqk.mU-

From Dave Hornish's great blog and article by Olberman
But if Olberman is right they would meet the definition of a variation held by some.. card changed by the manufacturer after printing started


https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrF...ciWJ1.Ww_SlUA-

[Elberson]

Ok….the rabbit hole I will go than…..

2 down……

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

The grading companies used to follow what the SCD Standard Catalog and or Becketts did in terms of variations but that obviously does not happen anymore.

Topps proofs tend to be blank bank, but the 60 Throneberry, as well as the Hadley and Cimoli have finished backs. Still I agree with you about not including it on master lists

From Bob Lemke's blog blog

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awri...HRoRUgHyqk.mU-

From Dave Hornish's great blog and article by Olberman
But if Olberman is right they would meet the definition of a variation held by some.. card changed by the manufacturer after printing started


https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrF...ciWJ1.Ww_SlUA-

I feel like these three are the first chase cards in a way.

[Elberson]

1 more down……12 to go