How did Topps cut the cards?

[quitcrab]

Can someone explain how the process worked when Topps cut full sheets of 132 cards back in the 60s-70s?
I am trying to get a visual in my mind. Did they cut the sheet vertically first the horizontally? Was the sheet cut both ways all at once?
Was any part of the process not done by a machine? ( like a Topps worker using a manual paper cutter)
I can imagine a worker feeding the sheet into a cutter, but what takes place in the cutting order?
I know Topps used a blade and the OPC used a wire
Might be a strange question to some but I am curious of the process
Thanks Scott

[steve B]

It probably depends on the year.

By the late 70's most likely a device called a slitter, which would cut the sheet into strips. the strip I bought of 79s with 78 backs is a vertical strip, and supposedly how these were found at the dump the printer used.

Earlier sets might have been done on a guillotine cutter, which could take a stack of sheets and make the same cut to the entire stack at once. Usually its easier to cut the sheet into blocks then into individual cards since strips are awkward. I think 52s were probably done like this because there are some existing blocks.
The change may have come with the change in size for 57 but I'm not certain.
More current ones are partly die cut.

[quitcrab]

Thanks
I worked as an art teacher. The old “printshop” had a guilllotine type paper cutter that was sharp, accurate and would use a huge lever to cut 5 inch thick stacks of paper. I can’t imagine cutting cards by hand all day

[nebboy]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

Thanks
I worked as an art teacher. The old “printshop” had a guilllotine type paper cutter that was sharp, accurate and would use a huge lever to cut 5 inch thick stacks of paper. I can’t imagine cutting cards by hand all day

Yes they used a large format hydraulic guillotine cutter. First each large stack started in a jogger to align all sheets then cut horizontal and the whole stack was rotated 90 degrees and cut again. They very capable of precise cutting but miss cuts errors are totally dependent upon operator skills. Printing and cutting waste or mistakes goes to the trash back then (today recycling).

[quitcrab]

Pretty neat to think about the process. Next the cut cards had to be fed into another machine and “ mixed” up so packs had to have a random sampling of cards.
If multiply sheets were stacked and cut at the same time the operator was picking up stacks of the same player.

[Balticfox]

"How did Topps cut the cards?"

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

"How did Topps cut the cards?"

That is the O-Pee-Chee method right there.

ROFL

[tulsaboy]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

Pretty neat to think about the process. Next the cut cards had to be fed into another machine and “ mixed” up so packs had to have a random sampling of cards.
If multiply sheets were stacked and cut at the same time the operator was picking up stacks of the same player.

One of the reasons that vintage packs demonstrate known collation is because the sheets were stacked in a normal order, and then when cut the stacks of cards went in a predictable order. Thus allowing someone who knows the collation to successfully predict the next few cards in a sequence.

kevin

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

Pretty neat to think about the process. Next the cut cards had to be fed into another machine and “ mixed” up so packs had to have a random sampling of cards.
If multiply sheets were stacked and cut at the same time the operator was picking up stacks of the same player.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s (junk wax era) there was a guy named Rick Starks who's company, called Steven Juskiewicz, bought sheets from Topps by the pallet, and then had them cut. I was told they used some sort of laser cutter. They stacked a bunch of the same sheets onto the cutter, then cut in one direction, then the other, and thus were left stacks of the same card.

So, in 1990, when I bought 800 sets from Rick instead of placing an order of vending cases from Topps, what I received was 792 800-count boxes, each containing 800 of the same card. It saved me a lot of money on sorting costs! And customers loved the cards because they had perfect centering and perfect cuts. You'd open one of those boxes and the card edges were all exact - perfect - and they shone like gray glass.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

That is the O-Pee-Chee method right there.

ROFL

O-Pee-Chee didn't even bother to sharpen the knife first.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

Thanks
I worked as an art teacher. The old “printshop” had a guilllotine type paper cutter that was sharp, accurate and would use a huge lever to cut 5 inch thick stacks of paper. I can’t imagine cutting cards by hand all day

The kinds of guillotine cutters generally available to consumers are not much good for large scale jobs. After printing up a few sheets of replicards, my cutter did a reasonable job on the first few, but the blade quickly became just dull enough to leave a ragged edge if the handle wasn't manipulated exactly right on each cut. And, even using an industrial size cutter manually would get exhausting after a couple of hours, I would think.

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by tulsaboy

One of the reasons that vintage packs demonstrate known collation is because the sheets were stacked in a normal order, and then when cut the stacks of cards went in a predictable order. Thus allowing someone who knows the collation to successfully predict the next few cards in a sequence.

kevin

I might know a little about collation LOL although it varies by type of pack (wax/cello/rak) and year.

My educated guess is the 264 card sheet was first cut in half then the 132 card halves were cut into 66 card blocks. From there probably vertical strips as mentioned already

John

[quitcrab]

I like many have seen 132 card sheets, but the sheets came in 264 cards ( a double sheet) that was cut in half?

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

I like many have seen 132 card sheets, but the sheets came in 264 cards ( a double sheet) that was cut in half?

Yup

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

I like many have seen 132 card sheets, but the sheets came in 264 cards ( a double sheet) that was cut in half?

Thanks Dave, couple from 1971

[quitcrab]

Wow. Learn something everyday.
I would have thought it was going to be the exact same 132 card sheet left and right.
I am guessing the card sheets posted have just cards from one series ?

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

Wow. Learn something everyday.
I would have thought it was going to be the exact same 132 card sheet left and right.
I am guessing the card sheets posted have just cards from one series ?

Correct

[jmoran19]

Working on a theory for the next step of the process. Seems like the vertical strips were then sorted into two piles, example columns 1, 3 and 5 went into one pile and columns 2, 4 and 6 went into another

John

[toppcat]

The rightmost slit on the rightmost 71 sheet is quite interesting-all the action shots are on the left side of the sheet.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by toppcat

The rightmost slit on the rightmost 71 sheet is quite interesting-all the action shots are on the left side of the sheet.

Yeah, it was done in a similar fashion in 1972.
All of the 'in action' shots for each particular series were grouped together on the lower right of the (right side) print sheets.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

I might know a little about collation LOL although it varies by type of pack (wax/cello/rak) and year.

My educated guess is the 264 card sheet was first cut in half then the 132 card halves were cut into 66 card blocks. From there probably vertical strips as mentioned already

John

The strip I bought was the full height of a sheet.
Came rolled up in a box with no supports and of course got a little crushed. So it's got some damage.

[GamblingMan]

I just broke a bunch of vending boxes/cello boxes 1982-1985 and after seeing what was in there...I think the method of cutitng was to get hopped up on meth and stay up for days cutting nonstop. Most of the cards were complete garbage. Most were miscut by at least an inch. I landed a Mcgwire 1985 that had absolutely no border on top, the edge starts at the top of his cap. None of the cards were submittable from 1984-1985. I did find a few submittable in 1982 and 1983 boxes/cellos but only a couple. I am definitely going to stay away from anything made from 1984 and newer. As I feel completely ripped off, lol

[butchie_t]

Moral of the story is not to gamble....man.

I kid, I kid

Butch