Genuine question, what is with the National staying in Chicago

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I'd expect literally any east coast city to break the attendance record in 2025. I'm in south central PA, which on a map is pretty close to chicago. But in reality it's a 10 hour drive. I'm somebody who can walk a show easily in 3 hours. It doesn't take me 3 days. So when the drive is 20 hrs total and I'm walking for 3 it just really isn't a great time.

Chicago is a national for people who fly and spend money on things that aren't cards, plain and simple. So that eliminates 9/10 collectors.

Based on distance and population alone (which should be the factors used) it should be held in the northeast every year,
In one of the following states
New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Connecticut, DC, Maryland. Statistically, these places will bring the most people every year. Because they are drivable from each other.

Personally I think DC with so much to do that isn't just the show should be the permanent spot. But there are other contenders too, I know the amount of collectors in Virginia who would go to a national if it was held in their state could bring a national crowd just from their state.

The bolded part is just not accurate.

Also Virginia can barely put on a decent regional show in Chantilly…

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by notfast

The bolded part is just not accurate.

Also Virginia can barely put on a decent regional show in Chantilly…

Of course it's accurate. Most of the people going to the national in Chicago are flying, I haven't seen a n54er going that hasn't said they weren't flying yet. Like I already said, the northeast is the most heavily populated area of collectors, the ability to drive a short time enables people who can't spend exorbitant amounts on flights and hotel rooms the ability to go to the national. Its not subjective or an "I think I'm right" moment. Its objective and a fact. Crunching some simple numbers $100 in gas and a single day trip vs a $500 round trip economy flight and $200 a night in a hotel room or more depending on nights spent are pretty drastic differences. Most people aren't going to a show with thousands of dollars in their pockets. They are going with 50 or a few hundred bucks to spend on a single card or a bunch of cheap cards. So saving probably damn near $1000 after everything else is added up is massive.

I hear everybody saying they want a centralized national to be fair, and I respect that. But traveling to Nevada or the middle of Texas is just out of the cards for most people. That's a vacation for many, not a hobby trip. If the national wants to have the most people turn out every year it would be held in the northeast. That's all I'm saying.

And Chantilly never has any issues? And always has good turnout. So I'm not sure what that comment was about.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Of course it's accurate. Most of the people going to the national in Chicago are flying, I haven't seen a n54er going that hasn't said they weren't flying yet. Like I already said, the northeast is the most heavily populated area of collectors, the ability to drive a short time enables people who can't spend exorbitant amounts on flights and hotel rooms the ability to go to the national. Its not subjective or an "I think I'm right" moment. Its objective and a fact. Crunching some simple numbers $100 in gas and a single day trip vs a $500 round trip economy flight and $200 a night in a hotel room or more depending on nights spent are pretty drastic differences. Most people aren't going to a show with thousands of dollars in their pockets. They are going with 50 or a few hundred bucks to spend on a single card or a bunch of cheap cards. So saving probably damn near $1000 after everything else is added up is massive.

I hear everybody saying they want a centralized national to be fair, and I respect that. But traveling to Nevada or the middle of Texas is just out of the cards for most people. That's a vacation for many, not a hobby trip. If the national wants to have the most people turn out every year it would be held in the northeast. That's all I'm saying.

And Chantilly never has any issues? And always has good turnout. So I'm not sure what that comment was about.

I'm also in agreement about Chantilly. Not what it used to be. And a lot of dealers that used to set up are no longer.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

the ability to drive a short time enables people who can't spend exorbitant amounts on flights and hotel rooms the ability to go to the national. Its not subjective or an "I think I'm right" moment. Its objective and a fact. Crunching some simple numbers $100 in gas and a single day trip vs a $500 round trip economy flight and $200 a night in a hotel room or more depending on nights spent are pretty drastic differences. Most people aren't going to a show with thousands of dollars in their pockets. They are going with 50 or a few hundred bucks to spend on a single card or a bunch of cheap cards. So saving probably damn near $1000 after everything else is added up is massive.

I am going to have to disagree with you on these points.

The target audience of the show is not people with modest collecting budgets, it is collectors who are going to the show with thousands of dollars to spend, and they really don't care if the travel expenses are a thousand dollars more or less in any given year.

Also, the show is not the same as another card show. There is no economic argument that justifies the show in bargain shopping terms. If that is the focus, stay at home and buy on eBay. The National has bargains but is not the right show for bargain and budget-conscious collecting. It is the place for hunting down rare and obscure issues, finishing sets when you can see the cards in hand, finding crazy memorabilia, seeing insane eye candy on display, getting autographs, etc.

For me, at least, the most significant aspect of the National is that everyone goes. It is a great social week for me, a party to celebrate collecting with all the other at-heart ten-year-old boys and girls, a place to have hours-long conversations about cards like we did when we were kids. I dunno about most people but my wife and daughter have no interest at all in discussing which 1933 Goudey Ruth pose is the best one.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am going to have to disagree with you on these points.

The target audience of the show is not people with modest collecting budgets, it is collectors who are going to the show with thousands of dollars to spend, and they really don't care if the travel expenses are a thousand dollars more or less in any given year.

Also, the show is not the same as another card show. There is no economic argument that justifies the show in bargain shopping terms. If that is the focus, stay at home and buy on eBay. The National has bargains but is not the right show for bargain and budget-conscious collecting. It is the place for hunting down rare and obscure issues, finishing sets when you can see the cards in hand, finding crazy memorabilia, seeing insane eye candy on display, getting autographs, etc.

For me, at least, the most significant aspect of the National is that everyone goes. It is a great social week for me, a party to celebrate collecting with all the other at-heart ten-year-old boys and girls, a place to have hours-long conversations about cards like we did when we were kids. I dunno about most people but my wife and daughter have no interest at all in discussing which 1933 Goudey Ruth pose is the best one.

I agree with all of this. When I first started attending Nationals a couple decades ago there was a good chance I'd find a great, rare card to buy. As time went on, the Nationals became dominated by corporate sponsors/auction houses and the best cards I saw displayed were to be auctioned off in the near future. While I sometimes can still find a decent card to buy, I've adjusted my expectations and now really just go to walk around cards for a couple days, at least until I'm called back early for some kind of work emergency. The lower budget collector may still be able to find cards to buy but the powers that run the National aren't focusing on you. Which to me makes it a less necessary show to attend -- but if I can go I do go. I just don't feel as if I'm missing out as much if I don't.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree with all of this. When I first started attending Nationals a couple decades ago there was a good chance I'd find a great, rare card to buy. As time went on, the Nationals became dominated by corporate sponsors/auction houses and the best cards I saw displayed were to be auctioned off in the near future. While I sometimes can still find a decent card to buy, I've adjusted my expectations and now really just go to walk around cards for a couple days, at least until I'm called back early for some kind of work emergency. The lower budget collector may still be able to find cards to buy but the powers that run the National aren't focusing on you. Which to me makes it a less necessary show to attend -- but if I can go I do go. I just don't feel as if I'm missing out as much if I don't.

Ditto. I haven't been since 2019, the last few years due to work and family issues (a trial in 2023 and a family thing last year), and I am very much looking forward to hanging with my fellow card fiends. As for cards, I will be happy if I can knock off the last several cards in some condition-sensitive pet projects that aren't rare but that I am picky about and would like to see in hand before I buy. But I am also not adverse to finding a great, rare card.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

For me, at least, the most significant aspect of the National is that everyone goes. It is a great social week for me, a party to celebrate collecting with all the other at-heart ten-year-old boys and girls, a place to have hours-long conversations about cards like we did when we were kids. I dunno about most people but my wife and daughter have no interest at all in discussing which 1933 Goudey Ruth pose is the best one.

This.

I went to the National in 2023 and was at the show from Wednesday through Friday. I spent around $2k on on flights, hotel, Ubers, and food/drink before I ever purchased a card, and it was well worth it just for the social aspect of it. I made one new buddy at that show and we still talk almost every week. This was only my 3rd National since 2002 as work or family vacation obligations typically get in the way; but I'll spend the money to go to any National I can, even if I had no cash for cards.

[Mrc32]

I've never understood why the national doesn't invite every damn food truck in the city to set up outside. There were a couple food trucks inside at Cleveland last year (which is an AWFUL location) and those people made a killing.

I hope they do that for Chicago.

FWIW - As someone who flys in, I think chicago is a great location and honestly a great venue (other than the AC issue and the wifi issue a couple years back)